Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Not the Eye
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Maybe “self contained games” ?
Okay it seems Judge is another failed cut. Oh well. I’m assuming it being Shorty story helps.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Jan 1st 2023 at 9:36:29 AM
I have another minor suggestion for YMMV.Psych
- Seasons 4 & 5: Mr. Yin...
To
because Yin is only in those two episodes and not the entirety of seasons 4 and 5.
Buzz
Speaking of "Psych", Psych The Movie has a page.
Edit: I've made the change on the YMMV page
Edited by Paperfly on Jan 1st 2023 at 11:25:16 AM
Image Pickin' Backlog
I split Legend of the Galactic Heroes: The Galactic Empire for length. ~ACW you can change the pothole in Rudolf's entry to specific it's Legend Of The Galactic Heroes The Goldenbaum Dynasty he started.
Bye
Keep the Judge
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Psych change
New Year, new cuts. I got one of my own I unfortunately think needs to go on a reread of the comic.
From Astro City:
- Samaritan: The Infidel is one of Astro City's greatest threats and a wicked contrast to his enemy's unfailing virtue. Born Kiyu and possessed of an ever-constant curiosity of the world and how it worked, Kiyu eventually absorbed the power of the Empyrean fires and slaughtered those who would defy and oppress him. Branded a monstrous infidel, Kiyu happily takes the title for his own and travels across reality to use countless people from across time to use as fodder for experimentation, slaves, or his own pleasure, goading many into becoming subservient to him by saving them from many of the world's greatest disasters only to enslave them. When fought against by the Samatarian, the Infidel devastated the world and tried to destroy or enslave those close to his enemy countless times, even obliterating the entire world before finally making a pact of peace with his enemy when both realized the fight would be never-ending. Even in the present day where the Infidel seems to be a Retired Monster, he still actively schemes to subtly corrupt the Samatarian during their annual peace meetings, with even the prospect of a potential redemption for the Infidel left doubtful in lieu of the Infidel's perpetual crusade to slake his curiosity and trump over his nemesis no matter who has to suffer.
Original EP here. The Infidel is bad, don't get me wrong—he has one of the highest body counts of any villain in the series, period—and most of his screentime in the comic is dedicated to showcasing the extremes of It's All About Me the Infidel defines himself by. Not even his Freudian Excuse as a slave holds any water to me since by the time he ends up a supervillain, he's gung-ho on slavery himself, and in far crueler, more fantastic ways than he himself was ever treated.
That said, the Infidel is a Retired Monster by the time of Samaritan. The premise of the comic is that once every year, the Infidel and his arch-nemesis, the Superman Expy Samaritan, meet up and have a conversation, each subtly trying to sway the other to good or evil. Neither really work. But while the comic is deliberately nebulous on the idea that the Infidel ever could be redeemed, there's flashes of characterization and self-reflection in there I really don't think are becoming of a Complete Monster.
The end of the comic, for example, has the Infidel give this interesting monologue, when he looks up the name of a brilliant scientist the Samaritan referred to him in another ploy to try and get him to (gradually) turn good:
- "Gretchen Hasthings. Full head projection. Slow rotation. Hmm. She is not willowy, the way I like my women. Her skin is anything but alabaster. And yet—it would be nice to speak with someone who can grasp an advanced concept. Could he make such a ploy? Dangle a woman in front of me? Tempt me to accept his world? For the sake of conversation? Companionship? I put the thought out of my mind. He wouldn't put her at risk that way, wouldn't try to pique my interest in someone. Still...[I] sit, and smoke, and I ponder. And I think back to the tales my father's father told me, that his father's father told him. And not for the first time, I wonder. Am I the eagle...or the mountain?"
The Infidel, overall, is capable of introspection alien to most CMs. And while he never necessarily capitalizes on that introspection, he never fully dismisses it either. The lack of a full Ignored Epiphany to me and the overall idea the comic continues to float the idea that he could, even potentially, start to change is too much for me to look past. That he's even entertaining the notion of speaking to a woman as a fellow human being is an extraordinary sign of progress considering the Infidel is a sexist sociopath who seems to think less of women than he does every other human being period.
So cut him, I think. The comic never really out-and-out gives him redeeming qualities, but it leaves the door wide open for them and invites the possibility that he might one day follow through.
Thoughts? It's a unique situation, to be sure.
Edited by Scraggle on Jan 1st 2023 at 1:07:33 PM
The Draftsman of Doom
Cut for now. He can be reinstated if he decides to actively stifle his conscience.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Jan 1st 2023 at 3:23:37 PM
Feels good, don't it?
Iffy but I'll lean cut there as well, it sounds like there's a touch to much emphasis on redemption being a potential to ignore.
Not the Eye
Weak cut to infidel.
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Infid
A very cautious cut for Infidel, this seems like it goes just a tiny bit past being an Ignored Epiphany to say it isn't mitigating.
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
RIP Toriyama
For as nasty as he is, I'm swayed by the arguments and will say Cut him for now...if he happens to one day make a comeback wholly villainous, I'll be happy to see him reinstated.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Not the Eye
Well it happened to the purple man, soo.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Jan 1st 2023 at 1:13:04 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Seems like a cut.
I took care of the Psych stuff.
43: I think I'll keep the pothole around Empire, but remove Founder of the Kingdom around "Rudolf's self-titled Goldenbaum Dynasty" and make it "Rudolf's self-titled Goldenbaum Dynasty"
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Cut Infidel for the moment
Keep Judge
Cut Infidel
Cut the Infidel. Kinda reminds me of why Vorbis from Small Gods was cut.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Cut Infidel. Unless he develops any redeeming qualities that aren't subverted, we can always put him back up. Much like how I hope Norman Osborn goes back up one day no matter how unlikely that will happen.
Edited by CaptainPinkiePie on Jan 1st 2023 at 5:19:59 AM
Captain Pinkie Pie! Nah, just Pinkie Pie.
Showtime!
Cut Infidel
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Goku Black
Cut Infidel
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Also I'm not sure if I got this across I say keep the judge
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
So, I saw on the Doom Patrol YMMV that Daddy hasn't been updated since Season 2.
Throughout Season 2, he posed as a thought to be dead altar, Miranda, killed a few other alters by throwing them into the Well, and posing as Miranda, he took not only control over the Underground, influcing them to oust Jane as the main alter, took control over Jane's body on the surface, and tries to kill her by tossing her into the Well as he did with the other altars.
At the start of season 3, or the finished season 2 finale because of COVID, Daddy nearly kills Dorothy and tries to murder the Underground, including himself, but Jane and Kay put a stop to that.
I am not sure how to add on to the character, but I don't know who did Daddy in the original thread, but I thought an added crimes would be good to showcase.
I think we may need to re-examine Hel from Fire Emblem Heroes. The latest Tempest Trial ends with her sacrificing herself to save Eir from her Heroic Sacrifice to defeat Ganglöt, and according to Lif and Tharsir, her last words before dying for good was that she always genuinely loved Eir and always will.
Oh that sounds EXTREMELY redeeming, anyone whose played that game have anything to say, otherwise I say axe
Diary I'm gonna be positively okay with. That's honestly nasty enough