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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#1851: Dec 27th 2022 at 5:03:27 AM

Uncertain as to who "some" refers to here but we trope films, books, television, etc. based on real life events all the time and CM is no exception.

Snoke about sums up my understanding of Canon!Cindy, she's a potential for a cut later down the line but we're waiting for more RWBY to come out to talk about her more.

Also for Vecna's writeup do we wanna change the start to 'Henry Creel, aka "One"' since the reference to creating the Vecna and later Mind Flayer personalities/beings is stated in his entry; also Brenner's first name is Martin if we'd like to include that? Funny IIRC that's how Scraggle had it before people started adding more things in.

Edited by 43110 on Dec 27th 2022 at 8:22:44 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#1852: Dec 27th 2022 at 7:55:51 AM

So like this? I also moved the mention of "One"; lemme know if it's wrong.

  • Henry Creel is the human mind behind the eldritch Upside Down. A normal child in a loving household who nevertheless grew up as a hateful sociopath, Henry mind-raped his own family before murdering his mother and older sister, leaving his father Victor alive to take the fall for his atrocities, where Victor would go mad and scratch out his own eyes. Remanded to the care of Dr. Martin Brenner and becoming his first patient—thus known as 001 or simply "One"—Henry manipulated fellow psychic Eleven and convinced her to sever the chip inhibiting his abilities, allowing Henry to massacre not only every orderly and guard in Brenner's lab, but every psychic child as well. Banished to the Upside Down, Henry, later known as "Vecna" to the heroes, constructed the Mind Flayer, meaning every atrocity—from the murder of numerous well-loved supporting characters, to the massacres at Hawkins Laboratory, and of 30 random innocent people in 1986—can be laid at his feet. Vecna ultimately seeks to let the Upside Down spill into Earth and consume all humanity as the culmination of his misanthropy, and throughout Season 4, he torments, mind-rapes, and murders numerous innocent teenagers with their worst fears, ultimately torturing Max Mayfield into catatonia and possible brain death.

EDIT: Actually, because it looks odd otherwise, can I do this?

  • Vecna, born Henry Creel, is the human mind behind the eldritch Upside Down. A normal child in a loving household who nevertheless grew up as a hateful sociopath, Henry mind-raped his own family before murdering his mother and older sister, leaving his father Victor alive to take the fall for his atrocities, where Victor would go mad and scratch out his own eyes. Remanded to the care of Dr. Martin Brenner and becoming his first patient—thus known as 001 or simply "One"—Henry manipulated fellow psychic Eleven and convinced her to sever the chip inhibiting his abilities, allowing Henry to massacre not only every orderly and guard in Brenner's lab, but every psychic child as well. Banished to the Upside Down, Henry constructed the Mind Flayer, meaning every atrocity—from the murder of numerous well-loved supporting characters, to the massacres at Hawkins Laboratory, and of 30 random innocent people in 1986—can be laid at his feet. Vecna ultimately seeks to let the Upside Down spill into Earth and consume all humanity as the culmination of his misanthropy, and throughout Season 4, he torments, mind-rapes, and murders numerous innocent teenagers with their worst fears, ultimately torturing Max Mayfield into catatonia and possible brain death.

Edited by ACW on Dec 27th 2022 at 1:14:25 PM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#1854: Dec 27th 2022 at 10:58:38 AM

Ditto

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#1856: Dec 27th 2022 at 11:08:34 AM

Good rewrite

As far as I've seen only one troper had issues with troping stuff based on real life and that was more of a misunderstanding of No Real Life Examples, Please!

So I think this write up is missing a few words at the highlighted part. It's from The Elder Scrolls but I'm not familiar with the character enough to make the change myself.

  • Potema Septim, the Wolf Queen of Solitude, has the dubious honor of being one of the few "unambiguously evil" figures in the history of Tamriel. Potema was responsible for the War of the Red Diamond, alleging her niece—and rightful Empress—to be a bastard, then having her executed to install her son Uriel Septim III as Emperor in her place, plunging the country into a war so brutal it nearly tore the Empire to pieces. Dabbling in necromancy and daedra-summoning toward the end of her life to the point has become a "land of death" from how bloated it is with resurrected corpses of her enemies and her own servants alike, Potema's evil was powerful enough to live on into the Fourth Age as a hateful spectre. Unspeakably petty as well, Potema once condemned a servant to the eternal torment of the Soul Cairn for an unintentional insult. Suspected to have even been responsible for the fall of her grand-nephew Pelagius the Mad into irrecoverable insanity, Potema is one of the few characters in Tamriel's inconsistent lore to be exactly as evil as she's claimed to be.

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#1857: Dec 27th 2022 at 11:21:07 AM

I would prefer to have the one listing all his identities at the start. IIRC, the reason we kept out him specifically being the mind flayer instead of creating it is because we supposedly lacked clarification there. Only for it to be pulled up that we did.

Bow to the Prototype
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#1858: Dec 27th 2022 at 11:37:00 AM

Looks good papyru

I myself have a rewrite:

  • Mother Zalem is an evil leader of the Dathomirian Nightsisters who plans to use the Infinity Gate to destroy Coruscant. Having enslaved and mated with Jedi Knight in her youth before killing him, Zalem has her daughter Ros Lai abandoned to cruelty of her clan after she seemingly end up deformed and poweless. Zalem has her slaves pyramids dig up Kwa piramids in deadly conditions and has Kwi, devolved descendants of the Kwa, captured and tortured. Zalem has Jedi Master Quinlan Vos captured and injected with a deadly poison before venturing into the Kwa pyramid, and later activates the Infinity Gate, sending a destructive wave to Coruscant, with her only regret being that she wouldn't be able to hear the screams of Jedi and countless innocents who will die.

I have given more context to her “relatioship” with Ros Lai’s father and her slaves aren’t Kwa (no idea how that slipped in), also given a better flow to paragraph with Quinlan Vos

[down] done.

Edited by EmperorGeode on Dec 27th 2022 at 11:54:54 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#1859: Dec 27th 2022 at 11:41:46 AM

Please add [up] to the Drafts.

Also, did Vecna CONSTRUCT the Mind-Flayer, or are they the same.

For that matter, I just noticed the writeup uses "Vecna" only twice: At the beginning and one other time. Everywhere else it's "Henry". Is that correct? I don't have Netflix and don't watch the show.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#1860: Dec 27th 2022 at 11:51:03 AM

My understanding is he constructed the Mind Flayer, but speaks and acts through it.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#1861: Dec 27th 2022 at 11:54:38 AM

Okay, so I think that part's okay.

But as for the other thing...when should the writeup use "Henry" and when should it use "Vecna"?

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#1862: Dec 27th 2022 at 11:58:00 AM

Everything that takes place after he ends up in the Upside Down should be Vecna (that’s when he changes identities cause his body gets wrecked) so based on how the write up is structured, the only change should be “Vecna constructed the Mind Flayer”

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Dec 27th 2022 at 3:01:25 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#1864: Dec 27th 2022 at 12:06:32 PM

@Geode That isn't a rewrite, I'm asking for help with rewriting that section because I don't know enough about her to do it myself.

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#1865: Dec 27th 2022 at 12:06:40 PM

Will says that Vecna is who the mind flayer was the whole time and Word of God is that when the mind flayer would speak previously it was actually Henry speaking.

Bow to the Prototype
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#1866: Dec 27th 2022 at 12:10:28 PM

@Pap I'm guessing it's meant to be Solitude? Judging by the EP by Scraggle:

By the time of her ultimate death at 90, Solitude is a "land of death", where even the chambermaids and the soldiers are undead and all of Potema's living allies have deserted her because of her nutfuckery.

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#1867: Dec 27th 2022 at 12:18:35 PM

[up]Thanks

  • Potema Septim, the Wolf Queen of Solitude, has the dubious honor of being one of the few "unambiguously evil" figures in the history of Tamriel. Potema was responsible for the War of the Red Diamond, alleging her niece—and rightful Empress—to be a bastard, then having her executed to install her son Uriel Septim III as Emperor in her place, plunging the country into a war so brutal it nearly tore the Empire to pieces. Dabbling in necromancy and daedra-summoning toward the end of her life to the point the city of Solitude has become a "land of death" from how bloated it is with resurrected corpses of her enemies and her own servants alike, Potema's evil was powerful enough to live on into the Fourth Age as a hateful spectre. Unspeakably petty as well, Potema once condemned a servant to the eternal torment of the Soul Cairn for an unintentional insult. Suspected to have even been responsible for the fall of her grand-nephew Pelagius the Mad into irrecoverable insanity, Potema is one of the few characters in Tamriel's inconsistent lore to be exactly as evil as she's claimed to be.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#1870: Dec 27th 2022 at 2:36:37 PM

So for DC and Marvel live action. How are these descriptions:

"Given the source material, it is little surprise that live action adaptations of DC Comics have some especially evil villains."

"Similar to the comics that inspired them, live action adaptations of Marvel Comics have a lot of vile villains."

Also once again which DC quote do we want to use:

"And now comes the part where I relieve you, the little people, of the burden of your failed and useless lives, but as my plastic surgeon always said, 'If you got to go, go with a smile!'"
The Joker before his attempt to kill the citizens of Gotham City with Smylex gas, Batman (1989)

"I have turned one hundred thousand worlds to dust, looking for Anti-Life. Looking for those who robbed me of my glory. I will stride across their bones and bask in the glow of Anti-Life. And all of existence shall be mine."

"You will be a curse upon Gotham. Children will wake from sleep screaming at the thought of you. Your legacy will be death and madness."
Paul Cicero to Jerome Valeska, Gotham, "The Last Laugh"

Again we only really have one live action Marvel quote:

"You still think we're making you a super hero, You... a dishonorable discharge, hip-deep in hookers. You're nothing. Little secret, Wade: This workshop doesn't make superheroes, we make super-slaves. We're gonna fit you with a control collar and auction you off to the highest bidder. Who knows what they'll have you doing? Terrorizing citizens, putting down freedom fighters, maybe just mow the occasional lawn."
Francis "Ajax" Freeman revealing his true plan to Wade Wilson (the future Deadpool), Deadpool (2016)

Unless anyone has any better suggestions.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#1871: Dec 27th 2022 at 2:40:09 PM

I think Darkseid quote works

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#1872: Dec 27th 2022 at 2:47:39 PM

Are general live action pages even allowed? (I've never seen tv and film pages grouped together like that anywhere on the site?).

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Idisagree Since: Jun, 2011
#1873: Dec 27th 2022 at 2:47:41 PM

I prefer the Gotham quote about Jerome myself. Also the Ajax quote is good (despite Deadpool's comedic tone, he's a keeper).

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#1874: Dec 27th 2022 at 2:55:30 PM

[up][up] Honestly, I don’t know if general live action page's are allowed. They were just the pages that were whipped up to tinker with. Personally after some thought, I still think a page for DC Films, DC series, and Marvel films is the way to go.

Edited by Bullman on Dec 27th 2022 at 4:59:09 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#1875: Dec 27th 2022 at 2:58:37 PM

[up] I mean do we need those pages. But if we do that sounds best.


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