Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread
.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here
) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread
.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread
, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread
. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
From browsing through the website there is something that I wanted to bring up with regards to Bob Barnes from Film/Platoon.
His CM entry reads as follows:
Staff Sergeant Robert "Bob" Barnes is a sociopathic brute who believes himself to be the ideal that all American soldiers should strive to be. Already showing himself to be an unforgiving fanatic by regularly degrading his own troops, even as they die all around him, Barnes shows his truly vicious personality when, while leading a raid onto a small Vietnamese village, he kills numerous villagers who are too slow in complying with his orders, before shooting an innocent woman in the head for irritating him. Holding an innocent child at gunpoint in an attempt to force her father to answer his questions, Barnes develops a seething hatred toward Sergeant Elias for halting his crimes, and later guns him down to eliminate the only one who would incriminate him for his murders. In the end, Barnes ruthlessly attempts to murder the only other man willing to stand up to him, Chris Taylor, and goads Taylor into killing him to prove his point that war and conflict is the true state of humankind.
All of this is bad of course, but the problem is that he is also listed on Well-Intentioned Extremist under his character folder, with the entry reading as follows:
Played with. Elias tells Taylor that Barnes acts as he does because he truly believes in the righteousness of America's cause in Vietnam, and that the end justifies the means. However, a lot of his actions are driven more by his ego than anything else.
Why I bring this up is because the tropes Complete Monster and Well-Intentioned Extremist are mutually exclusive of each other. So either the entry on Well-Intentioned Extremist should be removed from his folder and moved to another trope like Knight Templar or Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist, or he'd need to be cut from this page.
Thoughts?
It's been years since I've seen Platoon, so I can't really comment on Barnes being a WIE or not, but I should note that we don't need to police character pages to make them conform with our listings
"We'll meet again" | 🏳️⚧️From my viewing of Platoon, Barnes totally discards any redeeming qualities or good intentions he might have had at any point, and that most of his actions are driven by inflated ego and sadism. Besides, the whole WIE thing looks more like a subversion than "played with" (or in other words, it "seems" like he could have good intentions but it's turns out to be bullshit).
Edited by Thermal7 on Sep 28th 2024 at 8:47:13 AM
—-Henrick Istvan is the vicious leader of the murderous Silver Owls human army. Desiring to overthrow the Draconia royal family, Henrick spreads propaganda that the fae of Briar Valley are marauding beasts, which gains the support of all the surrounding nations to launch a fierce assault that sees much of the country destroyed. Coming to the castle of Princess Meleanor Draconia, Henrick demands she comes out and engage in a duel, fully intending to not only kill her regardless but also kidnap her unhatched baby and enslave it as his steed. When Meleanor refuses his terms, Henrick orders his men to kill her, successfully doing so and taking over Briar Valley by force.
In the case
Oh I'm dropping my reservation on Twilight Of The Gods, TBH I just lost interest and I'm not gonna finish it
"We'll meet again" | 🏳️⚧️Was adding an MB entry to YMMV.Transformers 2004 while I noticed that Megatron has an seemingly unauthorized CM entry. Can I remove it?
Eh, good enough.Yeah, the last edit before yours
shows that the entry was added by ACW with appropriate link to the thread and all.
Joe Bert Inc/DCR
Was just browsing through the Bad Boys (1995) page and noticed that Fouchet's CM writeup was reinstated. Searching through the catalogs of the CM thread, We haven't reproposed and approved him, have we? In which case, do I have permission to cut it?
Edit: Nevermind, got cut again.
Edited by InfernalKetchup on Sep 28th 2024 at 12:59:55 PM
Other account got hacked I thinkBarnes is an interesting character, because a lot of his actions do come from a desire to win the war, but without any real regard for his own men. He's very much obsessed with winning, and while he does show some emotional reaction to the troops getting killed (he appears to be upset when two soldiers die in a booby trap and is livid when Wolfe causes a friendly fire incident) you can really make the case that it's because he's losing troops who are useful to the war effort rather than any emotional connection (plus there are other scenes where he doesn't care about their well-being or even mistreats them outright). I think there are some good arguments both ways for his inclusion, though personally I think he keeps.
Here's my home address, social media, and bank account!Honestly, my problem with Black Doom is that besides Shadow himself of course, he doesn’t seem to treat the other members of the Black Arms race poorly at all. Many campaigns of every level, if you kill any Black Arms member as Shadow, Black Doom scolds you and gets mad that you kill any one of his members.
There’s also the fact that he seems to genuinely believe that his entire race is superior and not just himself.
Edited by Fireball246 on Sep 29th 2024 at 2:17:46 AM
Honestly, that is pragmatic villainy at best. He DOES need his army for his plans after all.
Problem with that is NOWHERE in the game shows that he cares for them.
Again, NONE of those quotes really prove anything. It's still pragmatic villainy at the end of the day, especially since he shows no care or concern for them whatsoever.
Does he mourn all of the other members that WEREN'T killed by Shadow. No. Those quotes can basically be him showing rage at Shadow for defying HIM, and plus, they really only exist to remind the player that the Black Arms are a part of the EVIL route. Easily not migrating.
Edited by Michealthehero21 on Sep 29th 2024 at 2:51:25 AM
Yes, but this will also be said by him even if you kill just one of his members in front of him, keep in mind that Doom has an entire armada, I’m pretty sure if Doom didn’t truly give a rats ass about the safety of his race, he wouldn’t mind Shadow smashing up at least one of his members. If this were truly pragmatic and he only cared about keeping his army for conquering the world, he would just consider losing one of his men as just a minor inconvenience at worst, but this simply isn’t a case of We Have Reserves.
Nowhere in the game does it ever show that he doesn’t care about them either. Shadow, once again, was the exception, since he wasn’t entirely Black Arms just only half Black Arm.
Here’s some more quotes if you kill any Black Arms members as Shadow in front of Doom:
Michael…… I literally just showed quotes that clearly indicate some care for his own men. Why would he even remotely say these things if he didn’t care about them in the slightest? This seems to be more than just mere Pragmatic Villainy because like I said, he says these lines even if you just kill one Black Arms member in front of him. And he says all of this even on the 100% canon True Hero path from the first level to the last level.
Edited by Fireball246 on Sep 29th 2024 at 2:52:02 AM
Still a keep for Black Doom. That just sounds like pragmatic villainy, as he needs minions for his plans.
What, like it's hard?

At The Legend of Zelda
The last sentence is weird. Souldn't it say "and cheerfully taunts him with the knowledge that killing her will kill her hosts as well"?