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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#17101: Aug 30th 2024 at 11:17:34 AM

My problem is that the Manga version is the original version. It feels pointless to not that when the link is to the Manga anyways.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#17102: Aug 30th 2024 at 11:41:20 AM

I'm thinking of this from a wiki perspective. Would someone casually browsing the YMMV page know the Complete Monster entry for Light specifically does not apply to the anime? I'm purely thinking what's best in this scenario from an information standpoint. I don't think it would hurt the entry aestetically speaking.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#17103: Aug 30th 2024 at 11:43:21 AM

I personally wouldn’t mind putting a Manga only tag for Light. It’s come up enough times over the years to indicate to me that people looking at the entry with no context get confused.

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#17104: Aug 30th 2024 at 11:49:53 AM

Looking at it again real quick, the actual way the wiki itself does pages is part of the confusion. For Death Note, the anime tag redirects to the manga and both share a YMMV page.

The YMMV link on Franchise page links to the Manga's YMMV page. This is confusing as I was trying to see if Light's manga and film entries were there together. Alas, no. You have to click on the film tag to get to its own YMMV page where the film entry is listed.

This is more a Meta wiki issue, but things like this can be very confusing for casual site viewers. We know well enough since we all had an extensive discussion where we voted for all 3, anime, manga, film, at the same time and decided only the anime version didn't count.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#17105: Aug 30th 2024 at 11:53:26 AM

My problem is that well I don't see the need to do that with the original medium. Like if the Manga was the adaptation and not the other way around, I would be all for it, but here like the OG medium should be assumed unless noted otherwise. That said, you bring up good points and if others are fine with then so am I.

Edited by Bullman on Aug 30th 2024 at 1:56:37 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Rhino8888 from Spain Since: Mar, 2020
#17106: Aug 30th 2024 at 11:57:22 AM

The problem here is that Anime and Manga are usually put together so often that in this very site we usually do exactly that, and that Anime adaptations from Manga tend to be usually so identical most people are going to assume a trope counts on both unless we clarify it, so I think in this situation it would make sense to put it.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#17107: Aug 30th 2024 at 12:14:26 PM

Yeah, this isn't like Harry Potter where if you're in the YMMV pages, you know which work you're looking at. The Anime and Manga share a YMMV (as they usually do in Animanga pages), so the distinction isn't as clear cut

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#17108: Aug 30th 2024 at 12:18:05 PM

I would honestly be okay with noting it on the YMMV page, but I see no point in doing it on the main trope page. Which again could just be me, and I am outvoted. Honestly, it feels like the best idea is to split the mediums. But that can't be decided here.

Edited by Bullman on Aug 30th 2024 at 2:23:26 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#17109: Aug 30th 2024 at 12:27:22 PM

I personally think it’s fine as is but that’s just me.

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#17110: Aug 30th 2024 at 12:36:06 PM

My line of thinking is, just purely from a wiki perspective, having the minor additional info would help the casual viewer.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#17111: Aug 30th 2024 at 12:38:06 PM

I agree with adding that. I myself thought that anime Light counted for the trope the first time I saw his entry until I looked into some old discussions and saw that only the manga version was agreed to count.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#17112: Aug 30th 2024 at 12:38:35 PM

[up][up][up][up] But this has come up repeatedly for years now. Obviously we know what's up, but clearly there are several users who don't and it's led to people coming here for a long time. I don't see why we can't just solve the problem. Plus, there are several examples on the Anime and Manga pages (Monster.Anime And Manga G To N in particular) where we specify that the character only counts in the original medium, so there's not a lack of precedent here.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Aug 30th 2024 at 3:38:44 PM

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#17113: Aug 30th 2024 at 12:44:48 PM

Yeah, I think noting in the writeup that only Manga version counts is best.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#17114: Aug 30th 2024 at 12:45:11 PM

[up][up]Feel free to disagree but it just feels unnecessary to me to not that the OG version counts but not the adaptation. I also don't think those ones should either. Like I have never seen any other trope do that.

Obviously, I am outvoted in regard to this and that is fine too. So, it is probably okay to note since everyone else is okay with it.

Edited by Bullman on Aug 30th 2024 at 2:58:04 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#17115: Aug 30th 2024 at 1:04:28 PM

I'm fine with specifying it's just the OG Light.

Javertshark13 Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
#17116: Aug 30th 2024 at 1:40:31 PM

I found that a little confusing too and wasn’t sure if his anime counterpart had been approved later, so it probably should specify that it’s just for the manga.

On this subject, I was checking some of the prior discussion on him and it was decided that even if his amnesiac self had standards on who to kill his Kira self doesn’t, but the manga seems to contradict this since in two different scenes he’s shown objecting to killing certain criminals (and it’s a separate issue from his statements on lazy people where his objection is more pragmatic). The first is when he says he doesn’t approve of Mikami killing those who lacked evil intent, and the other is when Takada states that those with a criminal record will be targeted Light immediately says this is wrong and that his goal is to prevent crimes, not to kill those who have already paid for what they’ve done. Both of these are internal monologues so he’s not acting when he says this, so I’m uncertain as to whether they hold up or not.

Edited by Javertshark13 on Aug 30th 2024 at 4:42:42 AM

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#17117: Aug 30th 2024 at 1:44:20 PM

Normally I'd think adding a note that Light only keeps in the original pointless, but since this is like the 5th this has come up just add a "Manga only" thing to it just to be over it

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#17118: Aug 30th 2024 at 1:52:05 PM

Light’s mindset has been thoroughly analyzed. His good intent doesn’t ultimately hold up. He is an egomaniac serial killer.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#17119: Aug 30th 2024 at 2:21:16 PM

I think we should put the note specifying that he counts in the original only. We do that with other characters I don't see why this one has to be handled differently.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#17121: Aug 30th 2024 at 8:36:52 PM

Fine with adding the manga-only note if it's been that confusing for some folk!

Btw overdue on this, here's my updated write-up for Randall Boggs that takes into account his show actions:

  • Monsters, Inc. 1: Randall Boggs considers himself the greatest Scarer in Monstropolis, and goes to truly depraved lengths to outdo his rival James P. "Sulley" Sullivan. Driven by Envy and petty hatred of Sulley ever since he lost a scaring competition in college, Randall is an arrogant jerk who frequently bullies his coworkers at Monsters, Inc. in his quest to hit "big numbers". Revealed to be scheming to "revolutionize the industry" of Scaring, Randall has his abused minion Fungus create a Scream Extractor that tortures and suffocates those it is used on. Financed by Henry J. Waternoose III, Randall intends to kidnap children—starting with the toddler Mary "Boo" Gibbs—and use the Extractor to torment screams out of them and create an endless supply of scream energy, making himself famous in the process of finally proving his superiority to Sulley. When Sulley and Mike Wazowski try to save Boo and stop Randall's scheme, Randall first tries to torture Mike with the Extractor, then attempts to murder them both while mocking Sulley over his planned use of Boo as the Extractor's first victim. Randall later allies with Johnny Worthington to try to poison the public perception of laugh energy by plunging Monstropolis into a blackout, and risks destroying the entire city by combining laugh and scare energy to satisfy his revenge on Sulley. Lacking the well-intentioned goals of Waternoose while being far more vile than Worthington, Randall is a monster in every sense of the word: uncaring of the pain of the countless children he will subject to the Extractor or the danger Worthington's plan poses to the city, and only concerned with fluffing his own ego.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
TheCosmicCollector Since: Feb, 2023 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#17122: Aug 30th 2024 at 8:39:21 PM

[tup] for the new Randall write-up.

TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#17124: Aug 30th 2024 at 9:02:42 PM

[tup] for the Randall update and adding Manga Only to Light's entry to avoid confusion.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
Dude-of-Wealth-And-Taste (Apprentice) Relationship Status: Become a part of me!
#17125: Aug 30th 2024 at 9:08:57 PM

[tup] to the Randall update and yeah honestly add the "manga only" notice to Light due to sheer amount of confusion it ended up bringing (to the point where irrc, I even saw anime!Light used as an example for a villain with poignant defeats being able to count on the So You Want to Write a CM page once)

Edited by Dude-of-Wealth-And-Taste on Aug 31st 2024 at 3:08:04 PM

Till all are one.

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