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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

WiryAiluropodine Since: Sep, 2017 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#17076: Aug 29th 2024 at 10:23:57 PM

Hi.

I was looking through the Remedy Entertainment page, recently created to house the approved Complete Monster edits that covered characters from the Remedy Connected Universe, and found that a separate troper from the one who had added the approved edits on the candidates from Alan Wake, Control, and Alan Wake II had added the alternate version of Warlin Door who serves as the Big Bad of the Night Springs DLC's Time Breaker episode to the page. Said edit is also present here. I scoured through the Complete Monster thread, but I couldn't find any hint of Time Breaker Mr. Door being discussed and approved. Additionally, what was covered in the edit wasn't 100% accurate (largely regarding the name of the DLC episode and what character you're technically play as in said episode).

While we're on the subject, the aforementioned Remedy Entertainment page only includes Complete Monster entries covering characters that are part of the Remedy Connected Universe; it neglects to include the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard edits pertaining to both the Max Payne games (though Remedy didn't create the third game) and Quantum Break.

Edited by WiryAiluropodine on Aug 30th 2024 at 3:31:50 AM

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#17077: Aug 29th 2024 at 10:26:12 PM

No, I distinctly remember Door being approved, right after the 2 week for the DLC passed

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
WiryAiluropodine Since: Sep, 2017 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#17078: Aug 29th 2024 at 10:30:03 PM

Can you please provide a link? Because I have yet to find said discussion and approval anywhere in the thread.

Edited by WiryAiluropodine on Aug 30th 2024 at 3:30:29 AM

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
WiryAiluropodine Since: Sep, 2017 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#17080: Aug 29th 2024 at 10:37:14 PM

Thanks.

...Still personally think the edit/entry might need a bit of a touch-up; the DLC episode is called Time Breaker, not Time Breakers and you technically don't play as Tim Breaker in the episode - you play as The Actor (who is referred to as Shawn, at least in the beginning of the episode from what I can both recall and find from his character folder).

Edited by WiryAiluropodine on Aug 30th 2024 at 3:40:46 AM

GoSweetToday The Contract Freeloader from New York Since: Aug, 2024 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
The Contract Freeloader
#17081: Aug 29th 2024 at 10:41:27 PM

Hello, I would like to rewrite Chaka's entry, since it has a lot of inaccuracies, errors and misspellings here and there.

  • Complete Monster ("Fujiyama Gangster Paradise" arc): Chaka is a childishly violent Yakuza thug who introduces himself by beating Rokuro "Rock" Okujima in an attempt to impress Rebecca "Revy" Lee. When the Mob War between the Yakuza and Russian mob goes badly for his faction, Chaka kidnaps and brutalizes the teenage daughter of the Yakuza head, Yukino Washimine, threatening to sell her to a sexual sadist to be raped and tortured. Intending to take control of the Washimine clan with Yukino and her father out of the way, when Revy and Yukino's bodyguard come for him, he hides behind his own men, shooting through them and killing one for trying to run while fleeing himself.

to

  • Complete Monster ("Fujiyama Gangster Paradise" arc): Chaka is a childishly violent Yakuza thug who introduces himself by beating Rokuro "Rock" Okujima in an attempt to impress Rebecca "Revy" Lee. When the Mob War between the Yakuza and Russian mob goes badly for his faction, Chaka betrays them, intending to take control of the Washimine clan by getting rid of the teenage Yakuza head, Yukio Washimine. He murders his former associate Yoshida, kidnaps Yukio, has his gang strip her of her clothes, and threatens to sell her to a sexual sadist to be raped and tortured. Chaka is also abusive to his own men, attacking them for petty reasons and threatening to kill them if they attempt to leave. When Revy and Ginji Matsuzaki arrive to rescue Yukio, he uses Yukio as a body shield and kills one of his men for trying to run while fleeing himself, leaving his gang to die. When his remaining men begin to question him, Chaka guns them down, an act that disgusts Revy.

Edited by GoSweetToday on Aug 30th 2024 at 6:55:50 AM

Sometimes the risk is worth taking before the fall.
BriarBranwen Still. Not. Bitten. from Earth, or so I'm told. (Apprentice)
Still. Not. Bitten.
#17082: Aug 30th 2024 at 1:08:40 AM

There's another Stupendium character I think should be cut.

  • "WHY DID I SAY OKIE DOKI?": Monika, lacking any of her canonical redeeming traits and Heel Realization, is the seemingly-friendly leader of the Literature Club. Having somehow gained powers to break the fourth wall and alter reality, Monika becomes obsessed with the newest member of the club, a close friend of Sayori's. In order to ensure the Protagonist is hers, Monika Mind Rapes Sayori to make her kill herself before erasing her from existence, ensuring that the Protagonist leads a lonely life before the Literature Club. Monika then uses her powers to break Natsuki and Yuri, driving the former to be more hostile and the latter to self-harm and eventually commit suicide as well before erasing them from existence. Monika then captures not just the Protagonist, but The Stupendium themself to be her prisoner for all time.

My issue is that other than the ending, where the protagonist finds themself unable to delete Monika, the song doesn't really diverge from the game's story. This isn't like the other listed Monika, who's portrayed as a markedly different character. Here, she's pretty much the same as the original. Even without her Heel–Face Turn, it can still be assumed she has her canon counterpart's other redeeming qualities. It's like how a fanfic version of Darth Vader wouldn't count even if there were nothing redeeming about him in the story itself; unless he were given a different backstory, he'd be kept off for the same reasons as in canon. It doesn't help that we don't see her POV either, unlike the Madame Macabre version. I also have doubts about Stupendium!Alice Angel, but I'm unfamiliar with Bendy so I don't know how different she is from canon.

What do you think?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#17083: Aug 30th 2024 at 4:18:17 AM

Slenderman, Aizen, Chaka rewrites to Drafts please.

Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#17084: Aug 30th 2024 at 5:39:50 AM

Agreed on cutting Monika; the song even alludes to her redeeming traits from the game with the lyric "She looks so sad and lonely..."

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
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Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
FoxyGrandpa12 Reze x Denji from New Jersey or New York (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Reze x Denji
#17088: Aug 30th 2024 at 6:31:46 AM

Cut Morfonika. Some of the other Stupendium songs may need to be checked.

Edited by FoxyGrandpa12 on Aug 30th 2024 at 9:35:55 AM

"Thing is, I believe that a single good movie will change your entire life." — Makima | aka Fox | he/she/they
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#17089: Aug 30th 2024 at 6:33:06 AM

Cut Monika (who I think I abstained on when she was proposed, actually)

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#17090: Aug 30th 2024 at 7:12:09 AM

Cut Monika.

Should Dorrance go under the Robin 1993 comic? Because he debuted earlier, and has more appearances later. Maybe just pothole "Swearing revenge" to that comic?

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
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#17096: Aug 30th 2024 at 10:33:03 AM

Two weird curiosities with the writeup of Count Yorga:

  • His name is a chained sinkhole.
  • His writeup contains a pothole to Inferred Holocaust. You know, the kind of thing a CM shouldn't have. Granted, he does seem heinous enough without it, and it's a 15-rated horror duology, so it feels weird if that trope applies for heinousness anyway.

"It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times?"
GoofyLuffyMan I am actually a manatee from a Yellow Submarine (Pilot) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
I am actually a manatee
#17097: Aug 30th 2024 at 10:35:56 AM

I have an issue with Light Yagami's writeup. I definitely agree that he counts as a Complete Monster... in the manga. But the anime version of him, while still unambiguously evil and heinous, is given a few more minor redeeming qualities to him and seems to have a genuine Heel Realization upon his death (unlike his manga counterpart, who died a Psychopathic Manchild who hadn't learned a thing). I think his writeup should stay mostly the same except it should mention that it is only his manga counterpart, not his anime counterpart. Anyone agree?

Edited by GoofyLuffyMan on Aug 30th 2024 at 10:40:33 AM

When a hero uses underhanded tactics in battle, they're "smart". But when a villain does it, they're a "coward". Is this the society we live in?
PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#17098: Aug 30th 2024 at 10:43:53 AM

No, we don’t use the original version to mention an adaptation doesn’t count.

GoofyLuffyMan I am actually a manatee from a Yellow Submarine (Pilot) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
I am actually a manatee
#17099: Aug 30th 2024 at 10:46:35 AM

Okay, thanks.

When a hero uses underhanded tactics in battle, they're "smart". But when a villain does it, they're a "coward". Is this the society we live in?
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#17100: Aug 30th 2024 at 11:02:49 AM

Putting "Manga only" wouldn't hurt. We do that for a few candidates, especially if the differences are broad enough.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.

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