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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#16126: Jul 25th 2024 at 3:44:40 PM

With the whole Radio Tower thing being an accident, Murkoff was aware of how fucked it got with Temple Gate right? Despite it being unintentional with the outcome, the company condemned a small rural town to a horrific situation? Then again, with it being Murkoff as a faceless corporate entity compared to Blaire being a fledged character, it does help his case.

I'm still for a cut purely on heinous concerns, if he stays, this discussion will be great to refer to. I haven't really got anymore arguments to pull, I'll just let this one settle.

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
Ghal-Sur Since: Dec, 2021
#16128: Jul 25th 2024 at 3:47:43 PM

[up][up]You did a great job and thanks for the great discussion. I, too, will remain in the end with my reduction. If he stays, great. If he leaves, it will be sad, but I think the Doctor will notice him perfectly in this case. Will you be making an EP for the Doctor?

Edited by Ghal-Sur on Jul 25th 2024 at 3:47:52 AM

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#16129: Jul 25th 2024 at 3:49:27 PM

Unless I missed something huge (which is admittedly possible), we don't ever get any knowledge on what the goal of the Radio Towers was, who (if anyone) was involved at any point, or even if anyone from Murkoff is still at the facility. Even when Simon Peacock tells Paul to investigate it in the comic, Paul doesn't get near it because the microwaves make him hallucinate, so it's completely nameless and faceless there.

Now, Pauline Glick is sent to investigate it after everyone dies and finds Blake there, so apparently someone knows about it, but again, there's no one attached to it beyond that. We don't get any indication of who is responsible for it beyond the idea of the entire corporation.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jul 25th 2024 at 6:53:14 AM

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#16130: Jul 25th 2024 at 3:51:20 PM

I will say keep Blaire at least until a proper effort post is done on the Doctor from Trials. I want to see in detail everything the Doctor does, and if he blow Blaire out of the water in every way then I don't mind cutting him.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#16131: Jul 25th 2024 at 3:52:05 PM

@ Bullaman, Fair enough.

Though, we could just go with “Pre-Tomorrowverse” or “mainline” like Star suggested, atleast as temporary place holder. But I get if others think it’s best to wait.

Edited by EmperorGeode on Jul 25th 2024 at 3:52:34 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#16132: Jul 25th 2024 at 3:53:56 PM

The DC thread is actually leaning towards Post-Flashpoint right now.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Ghal-Sur Since: Dec, 2021
#16133: Jul 25th 2024 at 3:56:18 PM

Yes, think it's better to see the Doctor's EP first, given his many similarities to Blair, before deciding exactly what will happen to Blair himself. I'll abstain then. And if Blair remains, it would be better to rewrite it to more accurately reflect his atrocities.

Edited by Ghal-Sur on Jul 25th 2024 at 3:58:34 AM

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#16134: Jul 25th 2024 at 4:04:46 PM

So should we table the discussion on Blaire then until the Doctor from the trials gets a fully explored EP?

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#16135: Jul 25th 2024 at 4:05:53 PM

I'm comfortable with that if others are!

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#16136: Jul 25th 2024 at 4:07:54 PM

Sure.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#16138: Jul 25th 2024 at 4:15:55 PM

Sounds like a plan then if people are on board! Would anyone oppose me doing it?

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#16139: Jul 25th 2024 at 4:19:05 PM

I think you’re good to go for it!

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#16140: Jul 25th 2024 at 4:20:30 PM

If you don't plan on playing it yourself, I would at least like you watch a play through. I want 100% clarifcation on this if this effort post is determining qualifications for 2 characters.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#16141: Jul 25th 2024 at 4:21:59 PM

[up] The only thing I'll use a wiki for mainly is document checks since they're all listed on there.

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#16142: Jul 25th 2024 at 4:24:23 PM

I just want us to be thorough on this one in particular if the heinous standard issue is this wonky.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Bluedeadredemption Since: Feb, 2021
#16143: Jul 25th 2024 at 4:35:43 PM

I suppose we keep Blaire for now, but then we see what this doctor does and if the doctor outclasses Blaire or not.

Ghal-Sur Since: Dec, 2021
#16144: Jul 25th 2024 at 4:52:18 PM

[up]That's right.

Wet:No problem, thank you very much for this.

And Lore is very well suited to the point that all the information is needed.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#16145: Jul 25th 2024 at 4:58:22 PM

I’m all for an EP on The Doctor and then we can discuss more about Blaire

Edited by G-Editor on Jul 25th 2024 at 7:59:19 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
#16146: Jul 25th 2024 at 5:08:33 PM

I can go with the ep for The Doctor for a discussion

Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
#16147: Jul 25th 2024 at 5:24:53 PM

I’m not familiar enough with Trials. But in regards to Blaire not causing the breakout, that doesn’t really matter since he’s still responsible for all the mass experimentations that created variants to begin with.

Ghal-Sur Since: Dec, 2021
#16148: Jul 25th 2024 at 11:22:47 PM

I'm more or less finishing watching Motherless Brooklyn and I can guarantee that Moses Randolph ultimately matters. All his crimes are in place and considering that the film is very narrow (it’s not even a gangster action movie, but just a detective story) and considering his resources (he’s certainly powerful, but ultimately he mainly uses only 4 people to carry out his tasks) he is more than bad. The rape of a maid out of pure sadism and the attempted murder of his own daughter, who did not even know about her relationship with Moses, and the fact that he brought his brother Paul into poverty simply for which he asked to take care of Laura is disgusting and here is a perfect example when the villain becomes CM due to the quality of his crimes.

Even though he claims that he is trying to help Brooklyn, Paul, the film itself and in the end Moses himself declare that he is only interested in his own power and at the end of the film Moses happily tells Lionel how wonderful power is and that he can do anything want and no one can stop him, even declaring that if he wants to rape (as he did with Laura’s mother) he will do it without hesitation. A striking example of Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist. And in the end, the film itself rejects any redeeming qualities that Moses might have had. After all, he is a vile egoist who raped an innocent woman for fun, who ruined his brother's life over a trifle and is trying to kill his own daughter, openly admitting that he only cares about power and the ability to do whatever he wants, destroying anyone who is against and disagrees. So he ends up staying.

Edited by Ghal-Sur on Jul 25th 2024 at 11:49:44 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#16149: Jul 26th 2024 at 12:27:24 AM

Can I ask something? Why is Mister X listed on both Monster.Marvel Comics and Monster.X Men and not just X-Men when he is you know a X-men villain?

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#16150: Jul 26th 2024 at 12:58:41 AM

He has nearly as many appearances in Thundebolts as he does in Wolverine.


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