Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread
.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here
) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread
.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread
, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread
. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Then again, we’ve also been ADDING a lot of characters we long dismissed as non-keepers, so maybe this is just Equivalent Exchange at work.
Edited by MasterN on Jul 13th 2024 at 1:02:41 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.I don't think you're getting much feedback because your posts are hard to follow and the grammar is pretty distracting. I'm leaning keep though, if he enacted the Zero Mortal Plan in the past and is taking steps to try it again we wouldn't count that as Offstage Villainy.
Cut the Bleach pair. Yeah, Tommy, I tried to warn you. I really think you should check out the Get Help With English thread. It'll make things a lot easier for everyone here, especially yourself.
Edited by AmateurStorytime on Jul 13th 2024 at 1:20:10 AM
Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!![]()
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That isn't my biggest point. My point is that he fails the heinous standard.
His worst act "enacting the zero mortals plan and trying to do so again" was also done by The crimson masked saiyan aka another zamasu.
The differance is that the C.M.S went above and beyond with his acts (killing 99 versions of Goku, blowing up planet Vegeta and mind controlling frieza and Cooler) and his crimes were all on screen.
Just like present zamasu fails the heinous standard to goku black and future zamasu despite all wanting to commit the zero mortals plan. Heroes!Zamasu fails the heinous standard to The crimson masked Saiyan.
Plus , mechikabura and fu commited crimes of similar or higher level of destruction than fused Zamasu.
Edited by TommySlenderman on Jul 13th 2024 at 1:24:39 AM
Enter's character page also has this:
- Even Evil Has Loved Ones: Invoked through a Messiah Card. Thanks to Tiararoid Enter can feel love and came to have brotherly feelings for Escape so he hates her copies because they aren't the same as the original. It's complicated.
Granted it's invoked due to a card (although lots of his abilities and personalities are due to cards) and Motw, but this does stick, while he does he does betray the original Escape, he has indeed fallen in love with her and hates the copies because of that. He does try to make a replacement with her original mind/personality but since her data is corrupted he can't do that.
Edited by BocchiTheRock on Jul 13th 2024 at 4:33:50 AM
Okay...
- Zamasu is the same renegade Kai who ravaged the multiverse to enact his "Zero Mortals Plan". Somehow brought Back from the Dead in his Fused form after he was previously killed by Zeno, Zamasu begrudgingly teams up with the Core Area Warriors, led by Hearts, in their shared goal to destroy Zeno. Zamasu assists Hearts in powering up the Universe Seed, doing so by invading universes to collect battle energy. Zamasu makes it clear he is allying with a mortal like Hearts only to ensure the power of the Universe Seed will kill Zeno, allowing him to continue his Zero Mortals Plan without interference.
Let's see: I'm not inclined to call the ZMP Offstage Villainy as I've explained; from there he seems to be powering this Universe Seed by invading entire universes to fight and collect energy.
I haven't played the game but your argument seems to be to cut him because the version of him that's the Crimson Masked Saiyan killed 99 version of Goku and blew up Planet Vegeta. Why isn't there room for another version of Zamasu trying to enact the ZMP and bolsters his rap sheet with mass combat and killing to collect energy. I'd put that on par with planetary destruction and claims that the CMS is more onscreen aren't swaying me.
Please do take the suggestions to visit the English thread to heart, as I don't mean to be rude but your response post is troublesome to follow too.
Cut Hela, Aizen (never felt comfortable with him, considering his behavior in the last chapters of the manga or episodes in the anime) and Yhwach (it seems Kubo didn't plan to make him a pure evil monster, another unintentional CM, then it's only fair that he gets cut). Rewrite of the Dark Lord and Swamp Witch.
Finished a good movie А.К.А. and overall happy to vouch that Kruger makes a difference. A few clarifications. No, he is not even indirectly responsible for the deaths of Cisco and Mona. He sent them on a dangerous mission, which they knew about and he did not know that they would die. And no, there are no "corrupt multitudes of people." Yes, Kruger turned Adam into his personal killer, ready to kill even innocents, but there is nothing to indicate that Kruger, in principle, corrupts people and turns them into murderers.
Otherwise he is accurate. Senator Marconnet directly tells Kruger that it was his idea to lure Al-Tayeb and his family to Paris in order to kill them (plus, given that Marconnet is not involved in murder, it is logical to assume that the attempt to kill Tayeb and his family was also directed by Kruger). And the fact that he ordered the commandos to kill Adam, Victor and their associates is also there. And it's just disgusting. The commando that was sent to kill Adam and Taieb also killed two doctors who treated Taieb's daughter and the girl herself. We don't see Kruger directly give the order, but it's clear that he did it. Plus, Marconna directly tells Kruger that as soon as his agent (Adam) discovers Taieb, he should call the commando. After this, Marconna minds his own business and it is clear that Kruger is given complete freedom of action to eliminate Taieb. And yes, in the end he really intended to kill Helene and eight-year-old Jonathan, Victor's adopted children, as well as Adam. Kruger specifically follows Helen and gets on the same bus as her. When Helene and Jonathan hug, Kruger looks at them and tries to kill Adam. It is quite clear that he intended to kill them both as well.
To be honest, I really want to say more about this. Kruger is in fact following in the footsteps of the Vanam and takes the “no witnesses” policy to a truly nightmarish and monstrous level. Kill a person who poses a danger to you? Is that one thing? Kill an agent who has become useful to you? Unpleasant, but okay. Kill people, including children who simply happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and who turned out to be associated with the goals? Is this the level of CM. Kruger's men aren't just trying to kill Adam and Taieb. They are trying to kill Pee Wee, a gangster who helped him out of friendship, they killed two doctors who had nothing to do with this at all and were simply trying to cure Taieb’s daughter, and also tried to kill the daughter herself. Who is in a coma. This, and the fact that Taieb's wife was also killed in Paris, simply emphasizes that Kruger prefers to kill not only the targets themselves, but also everyone associated with them or located in the same place.
Marconna is rather detached and indifferent to all this; he needs Taieb to die. He also says, “I want to bury this whole fucking gang.” It looks more like he meant Taieb and those who helped him against Marconne, but it’s obviously not the two doctors and his daughter. Kruger still orders them killed too. And the fact that the commandos are also actively trying to kill Taieb’s daughter once again emphasizes that this is an order from Kruger. It is unlikely that they would have tried to kill someone if they had not been ordered to do so. They are regular Mooks. That and the fact that he's trying to kill Victor's stepchildren is also disgusting. By that time, the information and connection between Marconna and Taeib had been published, that is, the goal of “hiding his dark deeds” had failed. It is unlikely that Kruger would have changed anything, killed Helen and Jonathan. But he is still trying to kill them, although they have no idea at all have something going on and just want to live normally. And at the same time, both Helen and Jonathan were spared, the police did not kill them, Kruger himself decided to kill them, here, apparently, just in case. This is the evil that separates ordinary villains from KM. Krueger decides in an extreme way to make ends meet and for whom, who in terms of resources is at best a mid-level bureaucrat? I'd say by the end he's more than bad enough. He has to kill Adam, Helen and Jonathan himself, pretending to be an ordinary citizen, he does not even send someone else to kill, despite the fact that he works for the senator. Considering his small resources, his very decent number of kills, the fact that he is ready to kill anyone who is in any way connected with events or goals that are dangerous to him, regardless of their knowledge and age? I'd say it's more than bad enough and I'm very happy to say it definitely makes a difference.
Edited by Ghal-Sur on Jul 13th 2024 at 2:14:01 AM
I think with both Yhwach and Aizen gone, the page doesn't have enough candidates for the page right?
I want to add a bit of a rewrite to Hody Jones from One Piece:
- Hody Jones is a fish-man who, having grown up in an enviorment where humans were seen as dangerous to other Fishmen, became the embodiment of all the pure hatred that his race had against them but none of his care for his fellow people. Disgusted by the benevolent Queen Otohime's petition that intended to improve relations between humans and fishmen, Hody Jones hired a human to burn the signature box. Hody then assassinated Otohime and framed the human for it, proudly bragging about his crimes when they're discovered. When he takes over Fishman Island, he declares that all of the fishmen who had signed Queen Otohime's petition would be executed, and forced everyone else to step on a picture of their former queen. When his ally Vander Decken uses his Devil Fruit power to send the giant ship Noah after Princess Shirahoshi, Hody severely wounds Vander Decken to cause the latter's powers to deactivate in an attempt to have Noah crash down on Fishman Island. When asked what exactly did the humans did to him to inherent such hatred, he coldly responds saying "nothing".
Cut Aizen x Yhwach
Maybe the Hody entry could use an extra pothole or two given the five limit was lifted, but otherwise keep as it is except for the "would" (for grammar). (I could vouch for that last bolded addition, but I haven't seen enough of Fishman Island arc to determine its importance to the character.)
EDIT: Speaking of the Bleach page, we'll always have the literature and video games, provided any keepers there are distinct enough from the original source to warrant separate writeups.
Edited by FoxyGrandpa12 on Jul 13th 2024 at 11:45:44 AM
"Thing is, I believe that a single good movie will change your entire life." — Makima | aka Fox | he/she/they"Fenris, my darling, what have they done to you"
I'd cut Hela from film alone
I posted this in the CM proposal thread, but this concerns Transformers: Animated Megatron's writeup.
"Megatron utilized chemical weapons that wiped out entire battlefields—even his own men"
This is from the comic story "Bots of Science", where my proposal, Oil Slick, releases a chemical weapon calles cosmic rust on the battlefield, killing both Autobot and Decepticon.
Given Oil Slick is still part of the Decepticons, Megatron probably doesn't care what happened, and being his leader is at least indirectly resposnible for what happened but nothing in the story states Oil Slick was given a direct order or asked for approval for his actions or that Megatron was aware.
I'm also not sure where "air bombings on civilians" comes from, it could also be from a comic story (Or Allspark Almanac) where Megatron is more responsible but I'd still like a closer look at that accusation.
I think Megatron is still a keep, just the parts from the comics need a closer look for his writeup.
Edited by Moroaica on Jul 13th 2024 at 10:06:26 AM
I would like to suggest this slight tweak to Peter Pan's entry:
- Malcolm, aka Peter Pan and The Pied Piper of Hamelin, is a demon who has children kidnapped and forced to become his eternal servants in Neverland, having his shadow kill any who try to escape by removing their souls, and is the abusive father of Rumplestiltskin. In the past Pan healed Hook's brother, just to let him die; and kidnapped Wendy Darling and keeps her prisoner, in order to force her brothers to do his bidding. Dying along with Neverland's magic, Pan plans to absorb the heart of a child, his own great-grandson, who is the truest believer in magic, making himself all-powerful and immortal, while the innocent child dies in his place. To this end, Pan is the brains behind Greg and Tamara's hatred of magic, all so they will bring Henry to him, killing them once they do so. When the heroes come to save Henry, he has a bit of fun tormenting them, all the while corrupting Henry. Pan later kills his own supporter to complete a magical curse and tries to murder Rumplestiltskin's family just to torment his son. Returning in the Underworld, Pan claims to want a fresh start with Rumplestiltskin, before revealing he really just wants to go back to the land of the living, and to this end plans to steal Zelena's heart and later tries to have Rumple steal Robin Hood's.
I feel like adding why he keeps her prisoner might be worth mentioning. Thoughts?
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

Cut Yhwach
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!