Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread
.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here
) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread
.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread
, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread
. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
I'm fairly certain that's been discussed under the general Depending on the Writer that the Krakoa era has been for other villains.
Oh, and definitely keep Umbridge.
Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.Keep Umbridge, loyalty to your country isn't exactly redeeming when it's a case of someone gleefully siding with the fascist, genocidally supremacist takeover, also Voldemort's coup was illegal, so if she really was loyal to the Ministry's laws she wouldn't support them
"We'll meet again" | 🏳️⚧️First time coming here, but I've just seen an issue.
In this edit
on YMMV.Genshin Impact, darkdill has expanded Azar's CM example and I recall that it can't be done without a discussion here.
Changed it back
~darkdill you cannot make major changes to an approved CM write up without going through this thread, I know you know this, I told you a while ago when you changed Pardis's entry
"We'll meet again" | 🏳️⚧️Quickly on everybody's favourite...
- Sound of Freedom: While the film contains its fair share of terrible and disgusting people, these two prove to be superior to all others in sheer cruelty and depravity:
- Giselle, real name Katy Juarez, also known as Cartagena, is a former beauty queen turned heartless child trafficker. Posing as a kind and friendly talent agent, Gisele manipulates poor parents into sending their children for a "photo shoot", only to kidnap them. Kidnapped children are stripped of their identities before being sold en masse for child pornography, sexual slavery, and prostitution, condemning them to a life of nightmares, with 10-15 sold at a time. Enjoying wealth and a luxurious life, built on the ruined lives of countless children, Gisele personifies the worst in human traffickers.
- El Alacrán ("The Scorpion") is the disgusting head of FARC, who wants to organize a revolution against his country. Scorpion enslaves countless civilians, including children, and then forces them to crush coca leaves to produce cocaine to finance his revolution. A vile pedophile and customer of Rocio, Scorpion turns her into his personal sex slave, and dies when he tries to rape her again. Implied to be ready to execute anyone, including his men, who contracts cholera, El Alacrán, despite his limited time, proves to be the most disgusting and terrible of Giselle's clients.
Is it just me or between the tagline and summary sentences are these entries really feeling like they need to almost echo just stating the characters are bad? At the very least I'd like to see the final sentence of each go and tbh I think the tagline could at least be shortened. It seems to just get sensational about the villains without delivering info.
Also yes, nothing about Umbridge comes close to being any kind of genuine, she's as subtle as a sledgehammer.
Edited by PassingThrough on Jun 26th 2024 at 4:19:24 AM
Yeah I frankly don't see the need for the tagline at all, we have stories with 3+ characters who keep and don't have a tagline like that, that's just weird to insert for a random movie with 2 keeps. Remove that and chop or heavily edit down the summary sentence endings.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!I wish to do an expansion to the entry for Azar in Genshin Impact. Agent of Chaos said I needed to discuss it here if it goes beyond any spelling or grammar fixes.
Here is the current version:
Azar is the cruel and hypocritical Grand Sage of Sumeru. Before the events of the Sumeru Archon Quest, Azar willingly collaborated with Il Dottore of the Fatui to create a new God of Wisdom to replace Lesser Lord Kusanali, who has been imprisoned for the past 500 years due to the Sages refusing to accept her as Sumeru's Archon. His Establishing Character Moment has him criticize Nilou and shut down the Sabzeruz Festival due to his own hatred of the arts along with the festival's connection to Lesser Lord Kusanali. Afterwards, Azar uses the Akasha to loop the day of the festival to extract the dreams of the populace of Sumeru City in addition to placing Nilou as the host of the dream loop due to his sheer pettiness; this would have caused countless deaths if successful. Later on, Azar manipulated the radical Eremite groups by creating false rumors of King Deshret's return to kidnap several exiled scholars in order to extract information from their minds; this, along with the dream extraction, was done to ascend Scaramouche to become the new God of Wisdom. It is also revealed that Azar planned to use the Divine Knowledge capsule to dispose of Alhaitham. Azar also used the Akasha to spy on Cyno and imprisoned the Amurta and Vahumana Sages for refusing to go along with his plans.
This would be the updated version:
Azar is the cruel, hypocritical, and treacherous Grand Sage of Sumeru. During the events of the Sumeru Archon Quest, Azar willingly collaborated with Il Dottore of the Fatui to create a new God of Wisdom to replace Lesser Lord Kusanali, who has been imprisoned for the past 500 years due to the Sages refusing to accept her as Sumeru's Archon. His Establishing Character Moment has him criticize Nilou and shut down the Sabzeruz Festival due to his own hatred of the arts along with the festival's connection to Lesser Lord Kusanali. Afterwards, Azar uses the Akasha to loop the day of the festival to extract the dreams of the populace of Sumeru City in addition to placing Nilou as the host of the dream loop due to his sheer pettiness; this would have caused countless deaths if successful, with Azar not caring in the slightest. Later on, Azar manipulated the radical Eremite groups by creating false rumors of King Deshret's return to kidnap several exiled scholars in order to extract information from their minds; this, along with the dream extraction, was done to ascend Scaramouche to become the new God of Wisdom. It is also revealed that Azar planned to use the Divine Knowledge capsule to dispose of Alhaitham. Azar also used the Akasha to spy on Cyno and imprisoned the Amurta and Vahumana Sages for refusing to go along with his plans. Finally, during Scaramouche's Interlude, it's revealed that Azar planned on controlling the Balladeer once he became a god and stabbing the Fatui in the back for his own benefit. And unlike so many of the villains in Genshin Impact who have some kind of Freudian Excuse or good reason for their villainy, Azar has none of that; everything he does is purely for his own selfishness and lust for power.
Would this be an acceptable improvement?
Edited by darkdill on Jun 26th 2024 at 1:51:04 AM
Is this based off of any new stuff? If the new stuff has been out for less than 2 weeks we need to wait until 2 weeks are up before we can add it
"We'll meet again" | 🏳️⚧️Cut Rob Novak, great job Robert and thanks for appreciating my work.
ACW: He is a prime example of an extremist. He sincerely believes that his actions will benefit New Orleans, constantly insisting that he is doing everything for the sake of his city and even when others assume personal gain, he always puts his shipyard first and foremost to benefit Orleans. Even when his plans fell apart and he admitted that he made “mistakes,” Hamilton continues to maintain that he did a good deed. Regardless of what others think of his true motives, it is clear that Hamilton sincerely wants to help New Orleans and sincerely believes that his actions will bring great benefits to the city. Stone is only there for monetary gain.
Regarding entre, I added the slogan because I wanted to emphasize that even among very disgusting people, C Ms are terrible. If it is necessary or better to cut out the slogan and the last sentence of both entres, no problem.
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I suppose I could figure out a way to shorten it so it doesn't explain each and every one of Azar's crimes.
Here's another version:
Azar is the cruel, hypocritical, and treacherous Grand Sage of Sumeru. During the events of the Sumeru Archon Quest, Azar is one of the driving forces behind most of the nation's troubles by collaborating with Il Dottore of the Fatui in a blasphemous effort to create a new God of Wisdom to replace Lesser Lord Kusanali. Throughout the story, he serves as an obstructive asshole who punishes others for petty reasons, stirs up racial tensions between the people of the desert and rainforest, abuses the power of his position to create new laws to suit his whims, and is willing to sacrifice as many innocent lives as it takes to get what he wants. Finally, he's a completely untrustworthy scumbag who is willing to betray anyone, including the Fatui and his nation's own god, for his own ends. And unlike so many of the villains in Genshin Impact who have some kind of Freudian Excuse or good reason for their villainy, Azar has none of that; everything he does is purely for his own selfishness and lust for power.
Is that better?
Edited by darkdill on Jun 26th 2024 at 6:19:22 AM
Yeah, Umbridge's actions clearly indicate she enjoys exerting power over people. Any loyalty to the "system" is because she's a MASSIVE control freak. Her "loyalty" is more fanaticism to something that allows her to boost her ego. It'd be one thing if she was just some bureaucrat following orders but she very clearly enjoys having other people under her thumb. Her devotion to Fudge goes to the wayside once the Ministry is taken over by Voldemort because she can do whatever she want against mudbloods. She keeps handily.
Edited by SarenApologist on Jun 26th 2024 at 9:08:23 AM
Here's my home address, social media, and bank account!I mentioned here
that I intend to go through the other Spider-Man fic Godwriter proposed from, but that's gonna take a while, so I wanted to get the Arcade rewrite out of the way. Here's the original writeup:
- Legends (link
): Arcade lacks his usual sense of fair play. Having grown sick and tired of losing to the heroes of the Marvel Universe, Arcade uses a ray gun to nullify their powers, erase almost everyone's memories of them, and conquer the world but not before instigating a civil war among the Inhumans as a distraction. Finding an old Steve Rogers alive, Arcade orders Agent Toynbee to destroy him and bring the other villains out of Hiding. When Arcade asks The Hood if he located the hidden bases, The Hood points out one of his flaws, causing Arcade to electrocute him in response. When his lies get exposed, Arcade, undergoes a Villainous Breakdown and threatens to blow the female Daredevil's brains out while gloating about he'll have a chance to kill the Avengers a second time.
Here's my rewrite:
- Legends (link
): Arcade, growing tired of losing to the heroes, snapped completely after Johnny Storm made fun of him and decided to erase superheroes from reality altogether. Killing Dr. Doom and impersonating him, Arcade first tortured Doctor Strange, then handed both him and an entire alternate dimension over to Dormammu to get the latter off his back; he then used Dr. Doom's power nullifier to remove every superhero's powers, allowing him to easily massacre them, then had Mastermind remove all memories of them from the world. Replacing superheroes with a lawless system where criminals run rampant under the control of Mr. Hyde, when Arcade is finally confronted with the next generation of Avengers, he decides to simply crash his helicarrier so he can take them with him when he dies.
How's that look?

I found these in the character folder for Gorgon from Marvel comics. Anyone familiar with this?