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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

LarryMullen Since: May, 2015
#14751: Jun 15th 2024 at 5:23:11 AM

As I recall, Azure goes along with everything Swarm does which I think makes her just as bad. I'm not sure if Undying Loyalty is enough to overcome that.

Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#14753: Jun 15th 2024 at 5:31:10 AM

[up][up] Loyalty in and of itself is a redeeming quality. Maybe an interpretation could be made for her being a Psycho Supporter In Love with Your Carnage, but given her prior aside to the Doctor about her faith, on top of putting her happy acceptance of her death in contrast to Swarm's panicking, I'd be hard pressed to say she isn't supposed to be depicted as genuinely devoted.

LarryMullen Since: May, 2015
#14754: Jun 15th 2024 at 5:44:15 AM

[up] I suppose you're right. But now that I think of it, wouldn't Swarm be disqualified because he loves Azure as his sister?

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#14756: Jun 15th 2024 at 5:51:02 AM

Nah. Their relationship isn't depicted as anything but creepy like the way he forcefully Reformats her.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#14757: Jun 15th 2024 at 5:57:52 AM

If we're doing overarching -> season -> episode, should Swarm be moved to above Tzim Sha?

Kronger3124 IT'S TV TIME! from Your Walls Since: Nov, 2023 Relationship Status: Whoa, they're bisexual! I didn't know that!
#14758: Jun 15th 2024 at 5:59:58 AM

I tried to rewrite William Afton's writeup, as I feel like the current one is very... barebones, so to speak, emitting some notable crimes and not getting into his character at all.

  • William Afton is the co-founder of the Fazbear franchise who used politeness and charm to hide narcissism and sociopathy. A Serial Killer of children, Afton would remain apathetic when his victims — including his best friend's daughter — would go on to possess the pizzeria's animatronics, hunting night guards in a blind quest for revenge. Creating the Funtime animatronics to do his dirty work for him, when his own daughter Elizabeth is caught in the crossfire and haunts Circus Baby, Afton locks the robots underground and has them tortured to maintain obedience. Any children Afton would kidnap would be brought to that very underground location, where they would be experimented on and exposed to horrific hallucinations for years on end. Even death would not stop Afton; upon a fatal accident, he simply haunts his corpse and tries to continue his killing spree, targeting his own son Michael and a whole restaurant full of children. Directly or indirectly responsible for every tragedy in the series, Afton is the monstrous human compared to the more humane monsters.

I can change it if anyone thinks it's too big or something similar.

Edited by Kronger3124 on Jun 15th 2024 at 3:00:29 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#14759: Jun 15th 2024 at 6:10:36 AM

[up][up]Hmm, probably.

Also, Emerald, mind taking care of the Sandbox and the YMMV pages and saving me a bit of work?

RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#14760: Jun 15th 2024 at 6:14:13 AM

Having checked a playthrough of >OBSERVER_... afraid I'm proposing a cut here.

The CM in question, Adam's AI, is a maleovalant computer responsible for a massacre, as EP'd here, the "Adam" in question being the son of the titular player-controlled MC.

For most of the EP, the misdeeds of Adam's AI is correct (killing it's creator Adam prior to the story, manipulating a mentally ill man named Victor into becoming a Mechanical Monster on a killing spree, trying to hijack the MC's body etc.), but the issue not mentioned in the writeup?

Before his death, Adam and the MC has a strained, broken father-son relationship, which manifests into the AI when it gains sentience - a scene illustrated in the game's cutscenes (not going to skim through the five-hour playthrough on You Tube for timecodes, but it's rather nicely explained here) - and in the opening cutscenes, Adam's AI deliberately targets the MC for being a terrible father and allowing his mother to die, with implications that it's driven by the remaining conscience from the deceased Adam.

Is the AI capable of making decisions? Maybe. But is it's programming driven by The Power of Hate caused by Adam's residual negative emotions projected towards his father? Adam's death prior to the game's events is depicted as a Face Death with Dignity moment, with Adam allowing his AI to kill him in order for Adam to continue living as his own program.

Worth noting that when the AI got EP'd two years ago, some regulars abstained for... reasons. If you still don't remember the reasons, I spent like five hours reviewing the playthrough, and an additional 24 minutes on the analysis video, so there you go.

Just... cut the AI. At the very least, A.I. Is a Crapshoot / Agency Issues / driven by The Power of Hate / etc. as a factor.

Ghal-Sur Since: Dec, 2021
#14761: Jun 15th 2024 at 6:46:19 AM

Eh, sad. Thank you very much Robert for checking. In this case, cut out Adam. This was clearly most likely the reason why Ravok decided that he was CM. And there were good reasons for that.

Good job Robert, thanks again.

By the way, here’s a question I’ve always wanted to ask. If a candidate actually does not meet the requirements and they need to be cut, as now with AI Adam, do we treat the removal the same as a regular removal, or is it important to explain exactly why they do not count?

Edited by Ghal-Sur on Jun 15th 2024 at 6:58:29 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#14762: Jun 15th 2024 at 7:51:11 AM

Cut the AI

[up] Not sure what you're asking. A regular cut is one where we explain why the character doesn't qualify

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#14763: Jun 15th 2024 at 7:53:55 AM

I think I get what he means

Basically, the cut process is explained on Administrivia.Complete Monster - if you open all the folders and CTRL+F "don't think", you'll find the process immediately! It's slightly different from how you've been handling G's stuff but the overall idea is basically the same.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jun 15th 2024 at 10:54:11 AM

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#14764: Jun 15th 2024 at 8:30:59 AM

Cut the Ai. Not familiar with Five Nights, but the rewrite looks okay.

On ACW's suggestion, added some episode potholes. Left out The Timeless Children; though he plays a big part in the episode, he's mostly just continuing his goals from before with little new additions to the rapsheet.

  • Ashad, the Lone Cyberman, is a vicious fanatic for the Cybermen; motivated by his own self-hatred for being human, he proudly abandoned his humanity to be converted. His conversion incomplete, he lacks the emotionless nature of the other Cybermen, ironically being the vilest of them all. Convinced it is his destiny to lead them to victory, Ashad traveled back in time to Villa Diodati in 1816 in search of the collective knowledge of the Cybermen, the Cyberium. Killing several people and almost converting an infant, rejecting him purely for being "weak", Ashad then began to open a portal that would tear reality itself until the Doctor gave him the Cyberium. Returning to his own time, Ashad led the Cybermen in hunting down the few human survivors of the Cyber Wars. Despising organic life, Ashad forcibly and painfully removed the organic components from his loyal Cybermen as they scream, and used the Cyberium to forge the Death Particle, a weapon capable of wiping out all life on an entire planet. Ashad's ultimate plan is to kill all organic life throughout the universe, leaving only the Cybermen to rule beneath him. Resurrected as a clone, Ashad aids the Master's plan to turn Earth into a foundry for the Cybermen and the Daleks, personally assaulting UNIT to horribly convert them into his new army.

LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime Raz (Season 2) Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
#14765: Jun 15th 2024 at 12:15:57 PM

Sure to the Whoniverse and Purple Guy re-writes; cut the AI.

I don't want the world, I just want your half.
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#14766: Jun 15th 2024 at 4:55:41 PM

Cut the AI, always doubted it counted.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
TheWrongOne41 The Clown is in town (*he*/she/they) from Somewhere, Mexico Since: May, 2022 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
The Clown is in town (*he*/she/they)
#14768: Jun 15th 2024 at 6:00:03 PM

This entry on PARANORMASIGHT: The Seven Mysteries of Honjo:

  • Kankichiro Iwai is the stepfather of Michiyo Shiraishi, and is the main cause behind both Yakko Sakazaki and Harue Shigima's stories. Originally a con artist, Iwai grew an admiration for Fumichika Nejima, and when he was sent to prison, met the man himself and became enthralled at his tales of Black Magic. Wanting to use this knowledge for fame and fortune, Iwai met Toshiko Shiraishi and became her common-law husband, only to show himself to be horribly abusive to both her and her daughter Michiyo. Forcing Michiyo to kidnap the young Shuichi Shigima, Iwai taunts the police and Shuichi's mother by asking a ransom while never intending to let Shuichi return to his mother, then forces Toshiko to kill him as a sacrifice for his ritual, ruining both of their lives in the process, for no reason other than greed and a petty hatred of society.

While his actions are vile, idk if this guy truly stands out in the games' standards.

The guy has pretty awful abuse, forceful kidnapping, and murder of a kid to his name with little resources. However, this is also during the same game with:

  • Fumichika Nejima, a serial killer who had dozens of women killed with simular resources (at the time) and later would plan to kill hundreds of children with a curse stone.
  • Lady Ashino, who with just a few resources, caused the deaths of the 7 people (including a child), two of which she tortured for a long time, and is the main reason why the curse stones exist in the first place.
  • Yoko Fukanaga who released the curse stones in the present and let people kill eachother with them, and essentially being succesful in her plan in the base ending.

He might get the edge for being the personal enemy of one main character and another important side character, but idk, what do you all think?

Edited by TheWrongOne41 on Jun 15th 2024 at 6:03:13 AM

Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice. (also i'm fluid now)
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#14769: Jun 15th 2024 at 7:53:34 PM

Yeah, that seems like a cut.

Where is the AI? I don't see it in the CM page or Sandbox?

RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#14770: Jun 15th 2024 at 8:00:01 PM

[up] one of G's, its already updated in the Sandbox

Edit: Ok, on the subject of Adam and more G... just checked out a playthrough of Ghostrunner. A game with a ridiculously thin and flimsy Excuse Plot and straightforward storyline —

Mara can stay, she's one of two halves of a Big Bad Duumvirate with another villain called Adam. This other Adam doesn't count under CM, but Mara being the main instigator of every bad thing in-game... yeah. The old writeup is accurate at least in this one. Vouching for Mara

Edited by RobertTYL on Jun 17th 2024 at 3:43:06 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#14771: Jun 16th 2024 at 7:26:20 AM

So bit of an issue. The Avatar monster page is under anime and manga but that's a mistake.

Zuko's Story is under the wrong name space now. Oel manga (as in western manga) go under the comic Book namespace.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
GamerBoy18 Since: Apr, 2022
#14772: Jun 16th 2024 at 9:20:16 AM

Speaking of Doctor Who rewrites, I guess someone’ll have to expand Sutekh’s entry at some point next month?

PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#14773: Jun 16th 2024 at 9:21:57 AM

He just went up but having just seen his death scene I think La Touche shouldn't be going up... when you go to assassinate him it literally flashes back to his wrongful termination, his corruption and he stays shown as a man wanting to do the right thing, even if he's becoming an extremist. He might also be a vicious torturer and attempted rapist but this is his literal last moment and I strongly disagree with including him when the writers choose for this to be our final glimpse into his mind and motivation.

TrippEverett Since: Feb, 2023
#14774: Jun 16th 2024 at 9:47:18 AM

Cut La Touche. The way he dies not only shows he had genuinely good intentions regardless of how awful he was, but the flashbacks are also played to a degree of sympathy.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#14775: Jun 16th 2024 at 9:49:55 AM

Cut touché

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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