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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#14476: Jun 9th 2024 at 10:15:00 AM

  • Turnabout Unmasked (link): Winston Payne, aka the Prosecutioner, is far more dangerous and evil than his original counterpart. A former well-respected prosecutor who grew resentful when the newer generations began outdoing him, Winston became corrupt in his prosecution dealings in order to win his cases, and becomes enraged when Miles Edgeworth catches him and disbars him. Enraged and vengeful, Winston began murdering multiple prosecutors in brutal ways, ending with Edgeworth himself; even killing his own brother Gaspen when the latter confronts him to allow Winston to fake his own death. Disguising himself as Klavier Gavin, Winston frames Apollo Justice for the murders and attempts to get to him thrown in jail, even murdering his previous associate Masque McNeil in order to cover his tracks. Trying to expose Bobby Fulbright as an imposter in order to get his case dismissed, Winston remains smug and remorseless when exposed, caring more about the attention and fame his position brings him than upholding justice.
  • Manhole: Masaki Tamura, the second (intentional) victim of the filaria, is an unrepentant kidnapper and pedophile. Four years prior to the start of the story, Tamura kidnapped a girl in the fifth grade and proceeded to rape her for six hours, recording the entire thing on video. Although the girl was eventually rescued by the police, Tamura waited for the incident to die down in the media before tracking down the girl's home address. He then mailed the girl's family the recordings of their granddaughter's rape, pleasuring himself knowing that he was causing his victim's family irreversible trauma. Years later, Tamura does not express any remorse for what he's done, only attempting to apologize after the filaria literally alters the chemistry of his brain. The sheer depth of Tamura's depravity is ultimately what prompted Hiroshi Kurokawa, the girl's grandfather and the culprit behind the filaria kidnappings, to seek out the filaria in a fanatic quest to purge society of scum like Tamura.
  • Panagia's Territory, by Merou Meiji: Mamilia is a Snake-type Zoa that disguises herself as the loving caretaker of the children in the Garden Orphanage, a cover for her business of Human Trafficking and Organ Theft that works alongside the genocidal Zoa criminal group Hydra. Mamilia's regular method is to drug her victims with a special poison and use her children to mutilate their corpses, while the children who prove resistance to Mamilia's poison are sold as "merchandise". When the Cordelia Trade Group investigates the Orphanage, Mamilia treats Randa and Lock with kindness to make them fall asleep and orders her children to kill Lock while planning to melt Randa with a particularly acidic poison. When Randa awakes, Mamilia sends her children to fight and impales a child to get a dirty shot against Randa and declare with pride that she indoctrinated the children into considering themselves to be her arms and legs.
  • Tai Chi Chasers: Emperor Diga is the psychopathic tyrant with an ambition to recreate the world with himself as a supreme god. As a dragonoid general, Diga would conjure his magic to turn the imprisoned Luva into a nihilistic warlord before overthrowing the Dragonoid Empire and wiping out the tigeroid royalty in the process. Diga sends his generals to retrieve the Tai Chi Cards that the Tigeroid Royalty scattered at the human world as last resort, and mercilessly murders his generals who fail their missions. Digawould attempt to destroy the tree that stabilises the world to plunge it into chaos and destruction and eliminate the Tai Chi Chasers in the process, his cataclysmic ambitions turning even his most loyal supporters to turn on him. After attempting to kill Rai in the middle of his confrontation with Luva at the Altar, Diga states that human heart is the obstacle to creating a new world and used shadow magic to attack the heroes and cause them to black out, transforming into a draconic demon to destroy the world and recreate it in his own image.
  • Season 2—Book Two: Spirits:
    • Unalaq, Korra's Evil Uncle, framed his brother Tonraq for angering vicious spirits to force his exile. Also having attempted to kidnap Korra when she was a child, Unalaq later assists the returned Dark Spirits, using them to take control of the Water Tribe and trigger a war while disposing of any who oppose him. Threatening to destroy Jinora's soul to force Korra to open the spirit portal, Unalaq attempts to kill Korra once she does so anyways. Assaulting the Southern Water Tribe, Unalaq beats down Tonraq, leaving him alive to rub in his victory. Unalaq summons the spirit of darkness, Vaatu, to fuse with him and become the Dark Avatar, attacking Republic City to kill any who can stop him and force all of humanity through ten thousand years of darkness under his draconian rule.
    • Vaatu, the Great Spirit of Darkness, is a primordial being who has threatened humanity for eons. Since the beginning of time, Vaatu has battled his counterpart—Raava, the Great Spirit of Light—for control over the world in an event called the Harmonic Convergence, so that Vaatu could enshroud the world in 10,000 years of darkness. Vaatu also broke the barriers between the physical and spirit worlds, allowing spirits to overwhelm humanity and nearly wipe them out, with Vaatu routinely corrupting spirits into dark spirits to slaughter even more humans. After having been imprisoned by Avatar Wan, Vaatu eventually forms an alliance with Unalaq, where Unalaq would free Vaatu at the next Harmonic Convergence so the two could merge and become the Dark Avatar so they could reshape the world in eternal darkness, starting by trying to destroy Republic City.
  • Dracula vs. King Arthur: Lucifer Morningstar is the orchestrater behind Dracula's bloody campaign against Camelot. Having Dracula brought to him during the ruler's final days as a mortal man, Lucifer shows Dracula images of his beloved wife in Hell and convinces him to forsake God. Offering him vengeance, Lucifer turns Dracula into a vampire and sends him back in time to the age of Camelot to destroy King Arthur, a champion of God. Helping Dracula out during his campaign, which sees villages destroyed and innocent people slaughtered, by telling him of an eclipse that will block the sun so that he can finish off Arthur once and for all, Lucifer wants Camelot destroyed simply to spite God.
  • The Ogre Gods: The late God-King, born the mightiest giant, decided that human food was beneath him and that he should feast on the humans themselves. In order to meet the God-King's need, his servants built the Farm where humans were massively raised as livestock, bred and selected for the quality of his flesh. Forcibly taking many wives for their large size to the point that many women spent their entire life couched down in fear of being chose, the God-King disowned every child he had since they were smaller than him.
  • Deacon Dark is the leader and High Priest of the cult known as the Eternal Light Corporation. Dark begins cloning the remains of the original Captain Comet to create an army to conquer Hardcore Station. To flush out the new Captain Comet, Dark takes over Hardcore Station and threatens to wipe it out if they don't hand over Comet, and to show he's not bluffing, has an entire area of Hardcore Station destroyed which kills thousands. Dark later elects to wipe out Hardcore Station when he's losing, which would kill millions of people. Returning later, Dark brainwashes the Thangarians into a brutal theocracy and has them start a genocidal war with the planet Rann. Dark also continues his vendetta against Comet, using one of his men as a suicide bomber in a failed attack which kills 200 bystanders. Dark betrays the villain Synnar to a painful reformat for his master the Demiurge, creating a new being known as Synnar the Demiurge. Dark is a nihilist who's put his lot in with Synnar the Demiurge due to his nihilism and desire to see Synnar smite the Creator. Dark plans to help his master assimilate all populations of the universe to empower him, starting with Thangar.
  • Justice League vs. Godzilla vs. Kong: Lex Luthor, acting leader of the Legion of Doom and their plans to wipe out the League, sets Titano on Metropolis as a distraction for Superman to allow Luthor to raid the Fortress of Solitude. Initially intending to trap the League in the Phantom Zone, the Mother Box briefly takes the Legion to the alternate Earth that the Titans inhabit. When Toyman brings the Titans back to their Earth, Luthor soon finds the remains of Mechagodzilla. Hijacking the deceased Toyman's plans, Luthor intends to use Mechagodzilla to enslave the Titans and use them to subjugate the world. As a distraction, Luthor recreates Mechagodzilla's beacon, luring Godzilla and Tiamat to Atlantis, nearly flooding the city in the ensuing fight. With Mechagodzilla completed, Luthor declares himself the alpha over the Titans as they converge on Metropolis.
  • Superman Returns, by Marv Wolfman: Lex Luthor, locked in prison after various crimes against humanity—notably attempting to assassinate the President of the United States and nearly wiping California and millions of lives off the map just for greed—escapes confinement and ruins an elderly woman's life before conning her out of her fortune. With his newfound resources, Luthor gets his hands on Krypton crystals, testing them out and causing citywide chaos throughout Metropolis that he giddily enjoys. Ultimately planning to use the crystals to form a new island that will never cease to grow, Luthor proudly brags that billions will die as his "new continent" overtakes and destroys entire countries, remarking that the countless lives lost deserve their fate for not appreciating his genius. Luthor hates Superman with such vitriol that he tries to murder Lois Lane and her five-year-old son just to spite the hero, and, after depowering Superman, Luthor spends several minutes brutally torturing and beating him to a bloody, broken pulp, taking sick pleasure out of his coming triumph.
  • Come and See: The nameless, young Obersturmfuhrer is an ice-eyed Nazi who stands out as the most inhuman member of his sadistic SS unit, even worse than the unit's commanding officer. Descending on a small town with his unit, the Obersturmfuhrer rounds up the entire populace in a church and gives them an ultimatum: any can leave, but they must abandon their children. The Obersturmfuhrer then torches the entire building to the ground with the screaming population still inside; the one woman who attempts to escape with a child gets sent off by the Obersturmfuhrer to be gang-raped into insanity after her child is tossed back into the church. When he's finally confronted at the end of a gun, the Obersturmfuhrer defiantly spits that his victims deserved it all and need to be wiped out, even remarking he singled out the children to kill them because "problems always start with the kids".
  • Heartland of Darkness (2022): Reverend Donovan, underneath his pious preachings, is a wicked Satanist and sadistic cult leader who views himself as a servant of the Devil. Having started several cults over the years, Donovan uses babies for blood rituals to appease his master, either by coercing his pregnant followers into giving their newborns up to him, or by having his men steal some from maternity wards. With a hatred for traitors and failures, Donovan has those who try to leave his church either brutally tortured to death under the guise of drug overdoses, or used as part of his sacrifices. Taking over the town of Copperton, OH, Donovan has killed many people to prevent reporter Paul Henson from exposing his crimes, even going so far as to have the governor assassinated. Killing his Arch-Enemy Reverend Kane and his girlfriend Julia Francine for failing to seduce Paul, Donovan has Paul's daughter Christine kidnapped to be used for his Black Mass. Escaping Paul's clutches after he interrupts his Mass, Donovan kills Paul's lover Shannon Cornell and tries once again to sacrifice Christine to Satan.
  • In Time: Fortis is the wealthy leader of the Minutemen gang who attacks poor districts to steal people's time. Having covered his right arm with tattoos to remind himself of his dozens to hundreds of victims, Fortis shows up at a bar to drain Henry Hamilton of his time. Barely stopped by hero Will Salas, Fortis later shoots a person In the Back for buying a gun. When Will and his girlfriend, Sylvia Weis, inspire the citizens to stand up against him, Fortis has many rounded up. questioned, and drained one-by-one until someone reveals their location. Ambushing Will, Fortis has him combat in arm wrestling, threatening to kill him and rape Sylvia before disposing her afterwards if he says no. In truth, Fortis secretly plans to have Will murdered anyways by his minions if he beats him.
  • Last Night at Terrace Lanes (2024): Father Dove is the leader of a murderous cult that believes he will gain immense power if he sacrifices enough innocent people. Having his men attack a packed bowling alley, Father Dove orders dozens of patrons and workers killed, personally taking an axe to the head of a straggler who tries to bargain for mercy. Capturing Tess, the girlfriend of protagonist Kennedy, Father Dove holds her prisoner and attempts to force the protagonist's father Bruce to kill her. When his hopelessly brainwashed cultists kill themselves in accordance with his dogma, Father Dove sneers at their deaths, proudly admitting to having groomed them into attack dogs with no remorse.
  • The Last Stop in Yuma County: Beau and Travis are two unrepentant thieves who will kill anyone who gets in their way, having already robbed a bank in Buckeye before the film's events. Having to wait at a diner for a fuel truck to arrive at a gas station, Travis & Beau threaten to kill both the waitress Charlotte and the knife salesman in the diner if they don't do what they say, with Beau strangling Charlotte to near-death and making it explicitly clear the only reason he and Travis haven't slit their throats and stolen their cars is because they realize that their cars don't have gas either. As more customers enter the diner, Beau & Travis systematically check if they have gas, along with checking if anyone in the motel next door has gas to find someone they can kill and steal their car. When one customer ends up having gas, Beau & Travis take Charlotte hostage and hold up everyone in the diner in an attempt to make their exit. However, this erupts into a shootout in which Beau & Travis kill most of the customers, including Charlotte, an elderly couple, a local rancher, and the gas station attendant, with Travis angrily threatening to kill the knife salesman and a young girl.
  • Murder by Numbers (2002): Richard Haywood is a smug teenager who wants to prove his superiority by becoming a successful Serial Killer. To commit The Perfect Crime, Richard bludgeons and kidnaps a woman before having his cohort Justin Pendleton kill her, then fabricate alibis. When investigated, Richard murders his own drug dealer to frame him, manipulates a remorseful Justin by sleeping with Justin's crush and recording it, and implicitly threatens to rape Detective Cassie Mayweather to cause her to hit him and damage her case. With the police closing in, Richard attempts to trick Justin into committing suicide to take the blame, and when Cassie arrives, Richard tries to kill both to continue murdering freely.
  • One Man's Justice: Corrupt FBI Agent Karl Savak, within moments of his first appearance, has the wife and young daughter of hero John North murdered to silence them as witnesses to his illegal gunrunning. Savak interrogates a roomful of helpless drug dealers before executing them one by one; burns another gunrunner alive in his own car; and viciously waterboards then later threatens to murder a 12-year-old child named Mikey to gain North's cooperation. In the movie's last third, Savak betrays his boss Dexter Kane, kills Kane's brother, and subsequently frames the cops so Kane's gang declares open war on the police department. Savak then sabotages the counterattack and gets all of Kane's goons killed, then personally murders Kane—as well as his own subordinate Marcus—to steal Kane's cache of firearms himself.
  • Sputnik (2020): Colonel Semiradov runs a facility where he experiments on a cosmonaut, Konstantin, who came back from space with an alien inside his body. Discovering the two have developed a symbiotic relation, Semiradov recruits Tatyana Yuryevna Klimova to help him sever the bond between Konstantin and the alien, as Semiradov intends to weaponize the alien. Semiradov keeps people imprisoned in his facility where he has the alien eat them alive, leading to Konstantin suffering agonizing pain and guilt due to his link with it. When Tatyana and Konstantin escape the facility, Semiradov murders the doctor that helped them, before attempting to force the alien back inside Konstantin and kill Tatyana.
  • You Can't Run Forever (2024): Wade Bennett is a college professor who snaps one day after a female student teases him and he catches his wife cheating on him. Flying into a misogynistic, murderous rage, Wade murders his wife and her lover, then goes on a killing spree of anyone in his way, including neighbors; gas station customers; and random people he runs into at a rest stop. Targeting the teen girl Miranda to rape and kill because she looks like his wife, Wade murders her stepdad and stalks the girl through the woods, killing off an entire family she tries to ask for help and calling Miranda's terrified pregnant mother Jenny to taunt her. When Miranda consistently evades him, Wade kidnaps Jenny then lures Miranda and her stepsister Emily into a trap, threatening to rape and murder all 3 women to satisfy his sadism.
  • Fractured Futures (Massive Multiplayer Crossover): RXQ is an entity who seeks Revenge on everything and everyone for erasing him. After meeting Benson, RXQ tricks him with the promise of helping him find his lost son, before starting to merge all realities to conquer them—a process that causes disastrous cataclysms in each reality, tearing them apart. Despite his short screentime, RXQ ultimately is the source of all troubles in the event and proves to be a Sadistic and power-hungry monster who's ready to sacrifice countless lives for his nefarious goals.
  • The Big Sister and Little Sister: The Mountain Spirit is a malevolent entity who plans to freeze every living thing in the world save for a handful of his loyal henchmen. Raising a family of his followers to royalty, he has them start on fulfilling his plan as they freeze many people and animals for petty reasons. The Mountain Spirit also employs a flock of vicious and nigh-indestructible shadow birds who tear apart anyone they catch. In his book, the Spirit gloats at length about the dead, cold world he intends to create.
  • The Castle of the Black Queen: The Black Queen is a witch who delights in petty sadism and commands bloodthirsty armies of dog-wolves and nigh-invincible goblins. She longs to seize a magic ring, but since Only the Pure of Heart can handle it, the Queen lures her niece Alina to her castle and uses a mix of Corrupt the Cutie attempts and threats to send her after the ring. Three of Alina's friends are killed during the quest, and Alina barely manages to revive them with the ring's help and escape the Queen's castle. The Queen sends, one by one, her servants, her dog-wolves, and her goblins after the girl and her friends. The goblins catch up with the group after the latter reaches the village, and nearly devour an entire funeral procession. After her minions fail, the Queen goes after the group herself, intent on only sparing Alina since she needs her to use the ring and killing everyone who protects the girl, including the Queen's own sister.
  • Tales from the Pizzaplex's "Animatronic Apocalypse": Mr. Renner is the Principal of Durham Elementary. A manipulative, enigmatic man of questionable humanity, Renner somehow manages to brainwash the school's Fazbear Fan Club—and later on, Mind Control the whole school as well as the police force—into following his often-harmful orders; whenever it's not something simply disgusting like eating dirt and bugs, he has them outright torture themselves by sticking needles under their fingernails. His victims suffer from amnesia during their brief moments of lucidity, and he has the teacher's pet Zabrina Zee ensure any hesitation is crushed by being pressured into following orders. As his most heinous act, Mr. Renner orders the entire Fazbear Fan Club to bury themselves alive, and later has them brutally assault classmate Robbie Wilson for trying to stop his plans.
  • Spirit Hunters Series:
    • Island of Monsters: The Razu are members of a race of monstrous immortals, and the worst of their kind. Demanding to be worshipped as gods and given Human Sacrifices, the Razu became so gluttonous they wiped out their followers and ravaged the land until they were banished to the spirit realm. Desiring to return to the mortal world, the Razu gain power by devouring souls and force the Bennington family to provide them with prey. When the current Bennington heir, Todd, refused to help them, the Razu punished him by slaughtering 16 people and killing his infant son. To finally complete their escape, the Razu force Todd's wife Clarissa to bring them 13 young people with powerful auras to devour, promising to spare her daughter Olivia, only to go back on their word and try to eat her anyways, killing Clarissa when she intervenes.
    • Something Wicked: Jenna Graham, real name Constance Wentworth, is an ancient, soul-swapping witch. Having escaped the Salem Witch trials by trading places with her servant Rebecca and leaving her to die in her place, Jenna has swapped souls with hundreds of women over the centuries, killing them in the process. Creating makeup company C. Wentworth, Inc., Jenna sells cancerous makeup products that steal the youth from their users to sell them to the highest bidder, planning to take her products worldwide. Seeking a permanent host body, Jenna schemes to possess Harper Raine due to her powerful aura, planning to dispose of her family and friends to tie up loose ends.
  • Scarlet Witch (1994): Lore is an evil alternate version of Wanda Maximoff and the Nexus Being with powers of necromancy. Lore corrupted her world before destroying it when she was finished. Lore has corrupted and wiped out countless worlds, seeking out the Nexus Beings of the worlds—a rare being in each universe which acts as a keystone keeping the flow of time in check—and killing and replacing them before ending their world. Seeking out Wanda Maximoff of Earth-616, Lore torments her using her old foe Master Pandemonium and mutates her friends into monsters to seek her out. After being defeated, Lore resurfaces in Avengers Unlimited (2022), now helping Master Pandemonium brainwash an entire town of innocents, planning to help him consume them for power.
  • Too Important To Let Die ("A Symbol Must Be Immortal") (link): War Minster Blue Falcon is a seemingly loyal member of Princess Twilight's cabinet but in truth only cares about advancing his own career. To increase the importance of his position, Blue Falcon purposely prolongs the war the with the Storm Army by ensuring that every time Equestria develops a new weapon that gives them an advantage, the Storm Army is able obtain said weapon shortly afterwards. Once he's put in charge of Rainbow Dash's resurrection procedure, Blue Falcon begins replacing perfectly healthy body parts with technology to make her a better fighter, viewing her as nothing but another weapon in his arsenal. When Dash volunteers for a suicide mission to take out the Storm King under the promise that they won't bring her back from death again, Blue Falcon immediately breaks that promise and has something installed in her brain that allows him to control what Dash says, forcing her to state that she'll keep fighting until the last remnants of the Stormy Army are defeated. Even after that is accomplished, Blue Falcon still refuses to let Dash die and instead claims that the real Dash died in combat and introduces her to public as a new weapon created in her likeness. Afraid of losing his position as second-most important pony in Equestria during peace time, Blue Falcon then has moles among the delegation from Minos detonate a bomb inside the Royal Palace to goad Equestria into another war, just so he can maintain his power.
  • Vol. 2:
    • "Critical Mass", by Bryce Wilson: The black car is an otherworldly vehicle who is more sapient, and sadistic, than it looks. Prowling downtown Austin, TX, and running over any cyclist it sees, the black car keeps track of its victims by having bikes stenciled on its side. With three lives claimed before the start of the story, the black car murders the cyclist Colin after he tries to get revenge on it. Killing two more people afterward, the black car ambushes a critical mass to kill as many cyclists and cops as possible. With potentially hundreds of victims left in its wake, the black car ultimately lives for bloodshed, refusing to stop no matter how many people it kills.
    • "El Sacoman", by Crystal Brinkerhoff: Harriet, a seemingly kind and forgetful old lady, is revealed to be a twisted Serial Killer and the true identity of the fabled El Sacoman. A crafter of dolls, Harriet lures young people and animals to her home and carves their faces off, using their skin to make leather dolls to add to her collection. With entire shelves occupied by the dolls made from her many victims, Harriet tries to kill Israel's son David after Israel steals some beads from her house, with Harriet admitting she'll get plenty of joy from making him her latest doll.
  • What if Palpatine Wasn't Elected As Supreme Chancellor in 'The Phantom Menace'? (link): Palpatine shows that he is willing to engineer the collapse of the entire Galactic Republic if he doesn't get the power he wants. Losing the election for the position of Supreme Chancellor to Bail Organa, Palpatine would seek to undermine the Republic from within. Kick-starting the Clone Wars, Palpatine would manipulate events to ensure that the Republic loses to the Separatists in a bid to delegitimize the Republic government, with all the losses being pinned on Supreme Chancellor Mon Mothma. Elected as chancellor after both Chancellor Mothma and her own successors were removed from office for their handling of the war, Palpatine would be elected Chancellor by his supporters, assuming emergency powers in the process. Telling Dooku to subvert the Separatists from within, Palpatine would engineer a few victories for the republic to solidify his power base. With his power base secure and Anakin Skywalker converted to The Dark Side, Palpatine would execute Order 66 and send Anakin to kill everyone in the Jedi temple. While Anakin would be redeemed due to Padmé's love, the evil that Palpatine ordered Anakin to do would traumatize Anakin to such an extent that he would willingly cut himself off from the Force.
  • What If Anakin Skywalker Never Killed Count Dooku? (link): Palpatine, sensing that the Jedi Council were made aware of his manipulations following the capture of Count Dooku and coming to arrest him, plots his escape from the Chancellor's office. Killing a driver and stealing his hovercar while escaping, Palpatine would execute Order 66 and cause the deaths of thousands of Jedi. Following this, he would lead the Clones stationed on Coruscant on a killing spree targeting any Jedi he finds, with the Jedi Masters being sent to testify in favor of the Jedi Council at the Senate once Palpatine has been dealt with being killed in the crossfire. Taking his massacre to the Jedi Temple, Palpatine and the Clones will strike down multiple Jedi, including Mace Windu and Obi-Wan Kenobi before being confronted by Anakin Skywalker. When Anakin refuses to turn to The Dark Side, Palpatine attempts to kill him with lethal amounts of Force Lightning.
  • What If the Jedi Order Captured the Outer Rim (link): Marchion Ro, after organising the fall of Starlight Beacon, continues to lead the Nihil to plunder and terrorise the Outer Rim. When he learns that a group of Jedi have banded together to hunt him down, Marchion feeds them false leads to buy time to find their base. Marchion uses the Nameless to torture and kill the Grandmaster Pra-Tre Veter. When the Jedi finally catch up to him, Marchion unleashes the Nameless on them and plans to force Avar Kriss to watch as he kills her friends, personally killing Mirro Lox and Santari Khri during the battle.
  • God of War series: Kratos, over two eras, has faced many foes, both major and minor, but none worse than the following:
    • Greek era:
      • AresKey games, the depraved God of War, is Kratos's predecessor upon Olympus. Not content with merely ruling over warfare and coveting sole rule of Olympus, Ares busied himself with endless slaughter. Responsible for directing every human conflict, massacre, and genocide, Ares gloried in the usage of monsters to torment humanity and the Furies to torture them. Upon arriving in Sparta and taking the boy Deimos, Ares gave him to the god Thanatos for eternal torture. Saving the life of the Spartan Kratos years later, Ares used him to conquer most of Greece with bloody purges until the day when Ares tricked Kratos into murdering his wife and child. Finally losing patience with his role, Ares then tried to annihilate all of Athens, with his ultimate goal being to destroy the other Gods, heedless of the damage it would do to the world.
      • ZeusKey games, the God of Thunder, is the King of Olympus and the ultimate foe Kratos faced in Greece. Born to the Titan Cronos, Zeus led a brutal war against all Titans solely because of Cronos's misdeeds, introducing mayhem and suffering to humanity. Despite the innocence of other Titans and the fact that Zeus himself was raised by his grandmother Gaia with compassion and care, Zeus damned them all to Tartarus and eternal suffering, crafting Tartarus to be the torment-filled afterlife of all humans who Zeus deemed "wicked". In his self-appointed role as ruler of the gods, Zeus would give free rein to his horrible family to be as awful as they wished so long as it served him, while personally manipulating Persephone into an abusive marriage to Hades; dooming Prometheus to have his organs be eaten then regenerated every day for all eternity; and siring many children whom he either neglected or abused. He was the one who had Ares sack Sparta, kidnap Zeus's son Deimos and cast him into constant torment, while Zeus cursed Callisto to become a savage monster if she ever revealed Zeus was the father of Kratos. When the power of Fear increased his paranoia of Kratos, Zeus betrayed him, slaughtered all of Rhodes and Sparta, and tried to sentence Kratos to Tartarus. Willing to abandon his daughter Athena to die, laughing off the deaths of his family, and routinely betraying his servants to a Fate Worse than Death when they are no longer useful, Zeus was evil from the very start of his reign; all Pandora's Box did was "amplify what he already possessed".
      • God of War II: The Sisters of FateAtropos, Lahkesis, and Clotho—are Zeus's most powerful allies. With power over the Threads of Fate and even time itself, the Fates are responsible for controlling the lives of everyone in Greece, with Lahkesis personally taking credit for deciding that Zeus would be victorious in his war against the Titans. Happy to consolidate Olympian rule, the Fates amuse themselves by observing events from their domain, the Island of Creation, a Death Trap where warriors face certain death for a chance to have an audience with the Fates. In their battle against Kratos, Atropos takes him back to his final confrontation with Ares and tries to break the giant sword that Kratos originally used to kill the God of War, content with leaving Ares free to continue his genocidal campaign if it means finally getting rid of the Ghost of Sparta.
    • Norse era duology: Odin, the self-proclaimed All-Father of the Nine Realms, wears the mask of a wise, friendly sage, but is actually a controlling narcissist who seeks ultimate knowledge and power, and only values those who further this cause. Lord of the Aesir who turned his people against their creator Ymir, Odin drowned the Jötnar race in Ymir's blood in a bigoted attempt to "cleanse" the Realms of Giants. Crafting Midgard and beginning a campaign of brutal conquest, Odin forced Svartalfheim to craft war machines by enslaving the dwarves; threw Helheim out of balance and caused the Desolation by corrupting the Valkyries into insanity; and led repeated genocide attempts against both the realm of Vanaheim and the repopulated Jötnar. Odin created his "eyes" by having mortal followers sacrifice their children so that their souls would be trapped as Odin's "spies" forever. Odin has a knack for abusing and ruining those he "loves", from tricking the huntress Skaði into murdering her own father; to torturing Mimir daily for over a century; to damning his wife Freya to be trapped, defenseless, on Midgard while her people believe she abandoned them. Odin's immediate family fare no better, as he "thrashed" his son Thor to raise him into an alcoholic killing machine, and regularly throws his other children or grandchildren into danger while deriding them as "useless" if they die. In his quest to avert his prophesied doom from Ragnarök, Odin turns Kratos's son Atreus against his father; uses hundreds of Midgardians as human shields; stabs the beloved Brok to death, and even murders Thor when he refuses Odin's order to "not think; just kill who I tell you to kill!" A petty tyrant who mistreats everyone and everything in service of himself, Odin is described as never having loved anyone, and even when redemption is offered, he promises to never stop his mad quest for omnipotence.
  • Papers, Please: Simon Wens is an infamous serial child murderer who is being hunted by the father of one of his victims, Julia. Trying to come into Arstotzka, Simon threatens the Inspector to be let in and cowardly flees if shown the photo of Julia.
  • Penumbra: Black Plague: Clarence, originally part of the Tuurngait that destroyed the Shelter, became his own entity when the Tuurngait merged with the mind of Philip Buchanon but failed to assimilate him. Trapped as a voice inside Philip's head, Clarence quickly reveals himself to be a complete sadist with a sense of humour to go with it, showing no remorse for his participation in the massacre of the research team stationed in the Shelter; cracking morbid jokes while trying to get both himself and Philip killed; and having an affinity for pulling twisted "pranks" on his host. Eventually coming to appreciate individuality, but still wanting to see Philip suffer, Clarence lets Philip bond with his Voice with an Internet Connection, Dr. Amabel Swanson, and messes with his perception to make him crush her head with a metal box when they finally meet, all while treating Swanson's murder as Philip falling for another one of Clarence's pranks.
  • Diabolik Lovers: Giesbach is the late king of the First Bloods. The egotistical Giesbach would harbor a deep hatred towards Karlheinz, his former friend, and Carla, his own firstborn son, because they showed more talents and were more well liked than him]], physically beating the latter constantly in spite of Carla's admiration towards him. Growing mad and paranoid due to his jealousy, Giesbach would plan to declare war against Karlheinz so he and Carla would die on the battlefield, uncaring about how this war combined with the looming threat of Endzeit could affect his subjects. Through claiming to be doing it for the good of the Founders, Giesbach's true motivation was his wounded ego. When called out by Krone, his wife, for his true motivation, Giesbach would angrily order her to be imprisoned by Carla. With the war effort failing and many Founders dying, Carla would fulfill his Krone's wish of killing his own father to save the First Bloods, but not before Giesbach's selfishness and egomania resulted in the near extinction of his people.
  • Dar'Khan Drathir was once an ordinary High Elf in Quel'Thalas who became obsessed with the Sunwell. After becoming a Magister, Dar'Khan would be approached by the fallen prince Arthas Menethil and was offered the chance to get his hands on the power of the Sunwell if Dar'Khan aided the Scourge in invading Quel'Thalas, and slaughtering his fellow elves. Accepting Arthas' deal, Dar'Khan quickly came to relish massacring his own people, and would even betray the Scourge in trying to claim the Sunwell. After being brought back as a Darkfallen, Dar'Khan would stalk the Human woman Anveena Teague after learning of her connection with the Sunwell, and immediately attempted to kidnap her after learning that she was the Sunwell itself. After being defeated a third time, Dar'Khan would continue assisting the Scourge in Quel'Thalas, and would be slain two more times before he was stopped.
  • Samurai Jack:
    • Aku is the self-proclaimed Shogun of Sorrow, the shapeshifting master of darkness, and the Arch-Enemy of Samurai Jack. Born from an ancient darkness mixing with a magical elixir, Aku immediately unleashed his unspeakable evil onto the world. Stopped from ravaging the land by the Emperor, who locked Aku away with the help of a powerful sword, Aku eventually escaped his confinement and enslaved the Emperor and his people. When the Emperor's son opposes Aku with the magic sword, Aku casts the "foolish" samurai warrior into a future where Aku's evil is law, and the entire galaxy suffers under his reign. The Earth is transformed into a Wretched Hive and haven for evil-doers across the universe, while entire races are enslaved or exterminated by Aku's whim. Any of Aku's subjects who show dissent to his rule are executed or, worse, sentenced to the "Pit of Hate". Aku regularly makes alliances with those around him, only to gleefully stab them in the back in the most painful way possible for nothing but sadism's sake, and any minions serving him are abused and disposed of for the slightest of failures. One of Aku's worst actions was when he trapped a Viking warrior as an immortal statue, forced him to watch as his family and land were destroyed, then buried the warrior alive so he could never reunite with his people in Valhalla. Aku also blesses the child-abusing Cult of Aku with his essence to inspire their further villainy, and when Jack's quest to get back to the past inspires a rebellion against Aku, Aku slaughters the rebels and kills the Scotsman. After horrifically turning his own daughter and Jack's Love Interest Ashi into a mindless slave so she'll be forced to kill Jack for him, Aku tampers with Jack's time portal, tricks him into stabbing Ashi, and tries to trap him in a time loop of suffering so he can never undo the future that is Aku.
    • Season 5: This duo from the final season proves that, sometimes, Humans Are the Real Monsters:
      • The High Priestess is the leader of the Cult of Aku, and a zealot dedicated solely to appeasing the dark god she worships by any means necessary. Drinking Aku's essence and giving birth to septuplets with Aku's dark energy within them, the High Priestess dubs them the Daughters of Aku and proceeds to horribly condition them into unfeeling weapons whose sole purpose is to kill Samurai Jack. The High Priestess systematically abuses them for years on end, searing their flesh with hot coals while they're still young and putting them through brutal, life-or-death training routines where every slight distraction means torture and beatings — sometimes simply for things as minor as looking outside. Having the Daughters graduate by having them massacre her own devoted followers, the High Priestess sends the Daughters into the world to kill Jack and callously brushes off the deaths of most of them at Jack's hand, furiously attempting to kill Ashi, her only surviving daughter, with her own hands after she finally turns on the High Priestess. An unfeeling fanatic able to rival her own dark god in evil, the High Priestess justifies her cruelty simply by stating Jack must die at any cost — regardless if that cost is her own flesh and blood.
      • "XCVI": The Dominator is a sadistic Torture Technician seemingly motivated purely by a desire to hurt people. Slaughtering a village of innocents and abducting all of their children, the Dominator painfully transforms all of the children into psychotic killing machines to be used as weapons, and tests them out on Jack and Ashi once they try to retrieve the children, with complete knowledge Jack's refusal to hurt innocents makes him easy prey. The Dominator brutally tortures Ashi upon capturing her with clear lascivious intent, gloating that children are easily manipulated tools — and that Jack's refusal to hurt them only makes him a "righteous fool".

Starkrafty Since: Sep, 2017
#14477: Jun 9th 2024 at 2:23:07 PM

I'm fine with the amended Come and See writeup, but do we think it would be worth including in a notenote  that the SS unit was inspired by/based on the Dirlewanger brigade? That seems like a decent compromise between points.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#14478: Jun 9th 2024 at 3:00:48 PM

You know what? I'm fine with that. So:

  • The nameless, young Obersturmfuhrer is an ice-eyed Nazi who stands out as the most inhuman member of his sadistic SS unit note , even worse than the unit's commanding officer...

LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime Raz (Season 2) Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
#14479: Jun 9th 2024 at 3:23:44 PM

[up] Wow, this is the first time I've seen a note in a CM writeup. I didn't even think such a thing was allowed.

Edited by LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime on Jun 9th 2024 at 3:24:03 AM

I don't want the world, I just want your half.
PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#14480: Jun 9th 2024 at 3:31:19 PM

If we’re discussing formatting I think it’s important, I wouldn’t even put it in a note, I’d actually just add an “—inspired by the real life Dirlewanger Brigade—“ I think it should be upfront since that really sells the young man being bad news.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#14481: Jun 9th 2024 at 3:37:47 PM

Notes in write ups are allowed. It's just recommend you don't overdo it. With too much info.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#14482: Jun 9th 2024 at 3:37:57 PM

The nameless, young Obersturmfuhrer is an ice-eyed Nazi who stands out as the most inhuman member of his sadistic SS unit—said unit based on the Dirlewanger Brigade—and is even worse than the unit's commanding officer.

PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#14483: Jun 9th 2024 at 3:55:49 PM

I wouldn’t do “said unit” since I think it’s obvious but otherwise that looks good.

LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime Raz (Season 2) Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
#14484: Jun 9th 2024 at 7:36:51 PM

This is a candidate I've been meaning to discuss cutting for a while:

  • Dream Theater's "The Dark Eternal Night": Nyarlathotep is as twisted as ever. Descending from the stars, the Outer God subjects worlds to madness and death, annihilating entire planets and leaving nothing but ruin and death in his wake, glorying over the destruction he creates.

I've heard the song (and it's pretty good, I must admit) and read the lyrics, and the whole thing just boils down to Nyarly awakening, destroying the Earth, THE END. Heck, it isn't even clear if it's about Nyarlathotep or some random mummy. I think we need to cut Nyarly.

I don't want the world, I just want your half.
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#14485: Jun 9th 2024 at 7:57:11 PM

Um, that is Nyarlathotep. The words "I am the last" is a reference to the 1920 prose poem he debuted in. The Egyptian imagery and references to the pharaohs are also in reference to him : one of his avatars is the Black Pharaoh. Really, the song is a reference to the prose poem.

Edited by AustinDR on Jun 9th 2024 at 8:01:11 AM

Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#14487: Jun 9th 2024 at 11:37:41 PM

I don't think that the story being simple justifies cuting this Nyarly

Watch me destroying my country
YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
#14488: Jun 10th 2024 at 7:55:05 AM

So I feel I need to correct something I feel I should have done better.

If your unaware I did reproposal of Vanitas from the Kingdom Hearts video game series for CM as the previous EP was plagiarized. I am however realizing that I might have failed to notice something that could impact whether he keeps or not for CM. That being his death.

Here is a link the scene for context https://youtu.be/Vi4ZE_yTtng?si=xHatGZFeW59tqApu

Now on the surface, this scene would have no issues. Vanitas rejects any chance of redemption offered to him by Sora and Ventus and reveals he has full agency as he admits he chooses to be Darkness and has no regrets. On the surface, this seems like a straightforward Redemption Rejection.

However, after looking back at the scene I realized there was important details that I had failed to take into account. Most notably during Vanitas' death melancholic music is playing in the background. Now this would not immediately be an issue on it's own but keeping in mind the fact Sora and Ventus are genuinely upset by Vanitas refusing to change the possibility that this scene was meant to have a tone of tragedy for Vanitas being unwilling to change, and the fact he goes out with a smile and with dignity during this further adds to that tone.

Now granted it's possible the intent of this scene is not for us to feel bad for Vanitas but for Sora and Ventus for being unable to convince but the other possibility is likely too.

I am not calling for a cut of him as I could see him keeping despite this, I just wanted to bring it up here to see what the consensus over this being potentially mitigating or not is.

I am sorry that I overlooked this as a possible issue in my EP and hope this helps reach a consensus on the matter

PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#14489: Jun 10th 2024 at 8:00:59 AM

I could honestly go either way on this one, the tempo of the scene really does seem to be setting sympathy and he's graceful in a manner that's not typical of a CM even when they Face Death with Dignity... he looks serene, akin to Acnologia. Maybe it's just the calmness with which he accepts it all reminding me of Makishima when he likewise takes his own loss well to a respected foe but even if there's nothing technically "redeeming" about it, it does give me pause. I'm not sure if I feel cut or just wait and see since to my understanding people come back from the dead in this work and I wouldn't be surprised if a revival of the villain elaborates more on what this scene hints at.

YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
#14490: Jun 10th 2024 at 8:07:35 AM

yeah they imply in the Remind DLC that some parts of Vanitas still exist in Ventus' heart even after his death so he could return

AmateurStorytime Just a starting content creator from Home Since: Mar, 2024
Just a starting content creator
#14491: Jun 10th 2024 at 8:16:51 AM

I say keep Vanitas. The music highlights the tragedy of the situation, but tragedy and sympathy are two very different things. In Fullmetal Alchemist, after Scar kills Shou and Nina Tucker, he prays for both of them. "God, hear me. Two human souls have just been returned to You. Please accept them into Your loving arms. Please grant these poor, lost souls everlasting peace and salvation." However, this in no way makes Shou Tucker sympathetic, it instead shows what kind of person Scar is. Vanitas' death is the same way, in that it's tragic that Sora and Ventus tried to redeem him and failed.

Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!
YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
#14492: Jun 10th 2024 at 8:19:35 AM

yeah I could see that as a possibility

The scene is trying to highlight how noble Sora and Ventus are

I will say it's a bit different from Scar praying for salvation for the soul of Shou Tucker in my opinion just based of the dignified death and music.

But your point still stands, that is one way this could be interpreted

PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#14493: Jun 10th 2024 at 8:22:45 AM

It's open ended but I do take issue with Tucker being used as a point of comparison when the mangaka literally draws him burning in hell after his end. I know it's not an open and shut case but this feels like a false equivalence.

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#14494: Jun 10th 2024 at 9:05:48 AM

I am for keeping Vanitas personally. Its a weird scene but sympathy feels more on the heroes for trying and failing to reach out to a proudly wicked villain. The fact that other villains' deaths in the game are much more clear cut disqualifying probably helps.

Edited by Snoketrope on Jun 10th 2024 at 9:06:01 AM

Bow to the Prototype
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#14495: Jun 10th 2024 at 9:15:43 AM

[up] But that’s also what gives me a little pause; if freaking Xehanort can get a sympathetic sendoff, I can totally believe they’re trying to do the same with Vanitas.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#14496: Jun 10th 2024 at 9:18:26 AM

I'd be fine keeping Vanitas for now. Since by all indications him and the other pieces of darkness are going to be the main villain of 4. Where I assume this Will get more expanded on

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
#14497: Jun 10th 2024 at 9:25:32 AM

[up][up] I feel that is not an equivalent comparison given Xehanort had Mittgatting traits and was WIE

If Vanitas gets cut i don’t feel it should be because Xehanort also got cut

Feels like the two don’t correlate

[up] Yeah that seems to be the case

Edited by YorkobeShounen on Jun 10th 2024 at 9:25:56 AM

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#14498: Jun 10th 2024 at 9:27:43 AM

If we have decent reason to think he is going to return soon then I am def for keeping him ATM and putting him on wait and see.

Bow to the Prototype
PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#14500: Jun 10th 2024 at 9:40:06 AM

That's about where I'm landing... I think he'll be cut and this scene is definitely leading towards something but may as well leave him and wait at this point.


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