Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread
.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here
) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread
.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread
, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread
. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Given it is an ongoing work I have put myself down for future discussions on any Hunter x Hunter C Ms.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Assuming that ever happens, as I’ve heard it’s one of those works with a nigh-unclearable standard of crimes to count.
Oh right, I just remember someone who seemed really bad from that series getting rejected because everyone was just as bad in that series.
Edited by MasterN on Jun 6th 2024 at 2:35:46 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Just going to note that there actually is someone listed already. It's not that the standard is quite that massive, even if its really high, rather its just that most of the villains have redeeming traits. Plenty of characters clear the standard.
Also one of the main villains in the current arc seems to be written as the most irredeemably evil character in the series.
yeah the current Big Bad of the arc is on a watchlist but if you want more details feel free to PM me.
Just know it is worth reserving
Yes that is more the issue. That most villains are way too Nuanced and humanized to count
![]()
We not only have a current keeper in Zazan but Shaiapouf also was a former CM who only got removed due to a redeeming Quality,
eprsonally, I feel how high the HXH Heinous Standard is exaggerated to an extent
Sure it's high but most main villains are not going to have much issue standing out
Edited by YorkobeShounen on Jun 6th 2024 at 3:17:00 AM
I have a question. Is Nazo from Nazo Unleashed Made of Evil? He was formed from the negative energy from the Chaos Emeralds. The main page for his work potholes to Made of Evil for him. Does he really qualify? Beings who are literally Made of Evil can't qualify as Complete Monsters.
My mother nicknamed me, hence the username.Nazo's fine. Him being created from negative chaos energy means he desires to gain power, not that he's forced into being evil. Plus Dark Sonic is also formed from the same energy and he cared about Tails.
Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.![]()
![]()
![]()
she is more helped by her Fate worse then deaths being very focused on and on a massive scale, that being millions of attempted victims
the HS isn’t impossible for most major villains to cross in my opinion
The bigger issue was them being humanized
Even now in this current arc that is the main concern for me personally on possible candidates as I have no doubt they pass the standard, rather if the author is going to give them mitigating qualities down the line.
Edited by YorkobeShounen on Jun 6th 2024 at 3:57:19 AM
Another old writeup of mine I wanna truncate and cleanup a bit.
Old:
- One Man's Justice: Corrupt FBI Agent Karl Savak, within moments of his first appearance, has the wife and young daughter of heroic drill sergeant John North murdered by proxy to silence them as witnesses to his illegal gunrunning. Casually dropping body after body in pursuit of guns he promised drug lord Dexter Kane, Savak interrogates a roomful of helpless drug dealers before executing them one by one; torches alive another gunrunner with vital information in his own car; viciously tortures and later threatens to murder the twelve-year-old child Mikey to gain North's cooperation; and later betrays Kane himself, murdering his brother and tricking his men into being massacred by the police by selling them blanks for their attempted retaliation. Eventually, Savak executes both Kane and his own subordinate Marcus to keep the guns for himself, utterly thrilled with the amount of bloodshed he'd be able to orchestrate with such firepower.
New:
- One Man's Justice: Corrupt FBI Agent Karl Savak, within moments of his first appearance, has the wife and young daughter of hero John North murdered to silence them as witnesses to his illegal gunrunning. Savak interrogates a roomful of helpless drug dealers before executing them one by one; burns another gunrunner alive in his own car; and viciously waterboards then later threatens to murder a twelve-year-old child named Mikey to gain North's cooperation. In the movie's last third, Savak betrays his boss Dexter Kane, kills Kane's brother and subsequently frames the cops so Kane's gang declares open war on the police department. Savak then sabotages the counterattack and gets all of Kane's goons killed, then personally murders Kane—as well as his own subordinate Marcus—to steal Kane's cache of firearms himself.
Works. Please don't forget potholes if they were accurate.
BTW, for Come and See, is Dirlewanger only called the Old Man?
- One Man's Justice: Corrupt FBI Agent Karl Savak, within moments of his first appearance, has the wife and young daughter of hero John North murdered to silence them as witnesses to his illegal gunrunning. Savak interrogates a roomful of helpless drug dealers before executing them one by one; burns another gunrunner alive in his own car; and viciously waterboards then later threatens to murder a 12-year-old child named Mikey to gain North's cooperation. In the movie's last third, Savak betrays his boss Dexter Kane, kills Kane's brother, and subsequently frames the cops so Kane's gang declares open war on the police department. Savak then sabotages the counterattack and gets all of Kane's goons killed, then personally murders Kane—as well as his own subordinate Marcus—to steal Kane's cache of firearms himself.
Edited by ACW on Jun 6th 2024 at 7:49:05 AM
Heck, I've got a solution for both:
- Come and See: The nameless, young Obersturmfuhrer is an ice-eyed Nazi who stands out as the most inhuman member of the sadistic SS Dirlewanger troop
, being even worse than Oskar Dirlewanger himself. Descending on a small town with his unit, the Obersturmfuhrer rounds up the entire populace in a church and gives them an ultimatum: any can leave, but they must abandon their children. The Obersturmfuhrer then torches the entire building to the ground with the screaming population still inside; the one woman who attempts to escape with a child gets sent off by the Obersturmfuhrer to be gang-raped into insanity after her child is tossed back into the church. When he's finally confronted at the end of a gun, the Obersturmfuhrer defiantly spits that his victims deserved it all and need to be wiped out, even remarking he singled out the children to kill them because "problems always start with the kids". - Superman Returns, by Marv Wolfman: Lex Luthor
is a far more serious, depraved threat than in the film, locked in prison after various crimes against humanity—notably attempting to assassinate the President of the United States and nearly wiping California and millions of lives off the map just for greed—escapes confinement and ruins an elderly woman's life before conning her out of her fortune. With his newfound resources, Luthor gets his hands on Krypton crystals, testing them out and causing citywide chaos throughout Metropolis that he giddily enjoys. Ultimately planning to use the crystals to form a new island that will never cease to grow, Luthor proudly brags that billions will die as his "new continent" overtakes and destroys entire countries, remarking that the countless lives lost deserve their fate for not appreciating his genius. Luthor hates Superman with such vitriol that he tries to murder Lois Lane and her five-year-old son just to spite the hero, and, after depowering Superman, Luthor spends several minutes brutally torturing and beating him to a bloody, broken pulp, taking sick pleasure out of his coming triumph.
They do look good, I agree. Also, I understand more about Nazo now. Thank you, Turles The Vegan.
Edited by SeaMonkey851 on Jun 6th 2024 at 9:05:59 AM
My mother nicknamed me, hence the username.Regarding the Come and See entry, the whole point of the addition was Starkrafty feeling the villain being emphasized as worse than "the old man" who lead the brigade as being noteworthy. Taking it out just brings us back to square one ACW. I think "the old man" is fine but if we're really hardline about titles can you look up whatever IMDB or something calls him so we can leave it properly amended?
Here's the link
. I don't know which one he is. I can make it "the (whatever) who leads the brigade"
Edited by ACW on Jun 8th 2024 at 9:01:22 AM
I saw that Post-Crisis Joker’s writeup just lists the things he did in one big run-on sentence, so I broke it up so it would read better.
Original:
- The Joker, a sadistic Monster Clown with a Multiple-Choice Past, is Batman's Arch-Enemy. Over the course of his long career, despite being mostly without superpowers, he has: crippled Barbara Gordon and tried to psychologically torture her father, Commissioner James Gordon, into madness; sold nuclear weapons to terrorists; savagely beat Jason Todd with a crowbar, then killed him and Jason's mother with a time bomb; repeatedly emotionally and physically abused his girlfriend, Harley Quinn, going so far as to try to kill her multiple times; attempted to infect the entire world by poisoning the atmosphere with Joker-venom when he believed he was dying; tried to kill every newborn baby in Gotham in order to break the city's spirit, killing Commissioner Gordon's second wife, Sarah Essen, in the process; and stealing the powers of Mister Mxyzptlk, becoming a nigh-omnipotent god-like being who turned the world into a hellish caricature of itself, tortured Batman to death only to revive him and repeat the process continuously until Batman was driven insane, devouring everyone in China, and attempting to wipe out all of existence. The Joker's sole motivation, in committing every crime there is, is amusement, based on what his disturbed sense of humor deems funny.
Rewrite:
- The Joker, a sadistic Monster Clown with a Multiple-Choice Past, is Batman’s Arch-Enemy. Over the course of his long career, despite being mostly without superpowers, he has crippled Barbara Gordon and tried to psychologically torture her father, Commissioner James Gordon, into madness; sold nuclear weapons to terrorists, and savagely beat Jason Todd with a crowbar, before killing him and Jason’s mother with a time bomb. The Joker repeatedly emotionally and physically abuses his girlfriend, Harley Quinn, going so far as to try to kill her multiple times. At one point, the Joker attempted to infect the entire world by poisoning the atmosphere with Joker-venom when he believed he was dying; and in another outing, tried to kill every newborn baby in Gotham in order to break the city’s spirit, killing Commissioner Gordon’s second wife, Sarah Essen, in the process. His crimes vastly increasing in scope after stealing the powers of Mr Mxyzptlk and becoming a nigh-omnipotent god-like being, the Joker turned the world into a hellish caricature of itself, tortured Batman to death only to revive him and repeat the process continuously until Batman was driven insane, devoured everyone in China, and attempted to wipe out all of existence. The Joker’s sole motivation in committing every crime there is is amusement, based on what his disturbed sense of humor deems funny.
What do you think?
Honestly, I'm fine with either one. The run-on sentence isn't too bad since it uses semicolons instead of commas.
EDIT: For Come and See, if it's this guy
, apparently his name is "Walter Stein". Or I could just say, "even worse than his unit's commanding officer".
EDIT 2: I looked at the transcript and couldn't find anything about Dirlewanger, so, how's this?
- Come and See: The nameless, young Obersturmfuhrer is an ice-eyed Nazi who stands out as the most inhuman member of his sadistic SS unit, even worse than the unit's commanding officer. Descending on a small town with his unit, the Obersturmfuhrer rounds up the entire populace in a church and gives them an ultimatum: any can leave, but they must abandon their children. The Obersturmfuhrer then torches the entire building to the ground with the screaming population still inside; the one woman who attempts to escape with a child gets sent off by the Obersturmfuhrer to be gang-raped into insanity after her child is tossed back into the church. When he's finally confronted at the end of a gun, the Obersturmfuhrer defiantly spits that his victims deserved it all and need to be wiped out, even remarking he singled out the children to kill them because "problems always start with the kids".
Edited by ACW on Jun 9th 2024 at 8:19:31 AM

That shall be done.
Edited by ACW on Jun 6th 2024 at 1:50:46 PM