Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread
.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here
) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread
.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread
, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread
. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
The Cathedral is Human Architecture Horror applied to an entire building as opposed to just, say, chairs and furniture.
I think I might have a cut from Fighting Fantasy to make, namely Lord Kelnor from one of Lightysnake's old effort posts.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivSenw8llok&page=6481#comment-162004
Kelnor is mostly treated as your typical demon summoning, human sacrificing evil aristocrat. Yet Lighty briefly mentioned during the mitigating factors section that Kelnor is shattered when his demon master is killed, but this was brushed off as him simply being upset that he lost his source of power. Having read the actual gamebook recently, the actual text makes me question if Kelnor did genuinely care about his master. Here's the exact text below.
- The creature howls as you strike the final blow. It totters on its hooves and crashes down on to the table. As it falls, its flailing arms smash into the chandelier in the center of the room, scattering candles on to the floor. From behind you another cry goes up and your other attacker, whom you had forgotten about completely, springs over to the table to hug the beast pitifully. You ought to kill both of them; but the pathetic, sobbing creature hunched over the huge bulk is hardly worth considering.
That honestly comes across to me as more than just an evil servant upset his powr source is dead. Crying out and ignoring an armed enemy to hug his dead Master's body is a powerful image.
I'm not concerned about the Demon itself still counting as it never directly shows any care for Kelnor, but that seems to be genuine sadness and care on Kelnor's part. What do you guys think?
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.Sorry, but I'm disagreeing here (being familiar with the book myself... I remember playing it 16 times before beating the damn book) note
The Hell Demon, "Franklins", is a source of power for Kelnor. For the entire book, they're depicted as a master-worshipper duo luring countless people into their Human Sacrifice schemes; Kelnor's last minute "pitiful sobbing" isn't fleshed out entirely, being condensed in just a single paragraph, the way I see it? The guy realize he's no longer in power since the Hell Demon's dead, and panics away. Kelnor ignores you because... you're armed with the powerful Kris knife, that you used to defeat an insanely powerful demon. He's NOT going to continue harassing you after seeing your fight.
And the reason "you" didn't finish off Kelnor is because the titular house is on fire and will be burnt up soon.
Voting to keep
EDIT:
One thing that I just realized (only because Lore posted the link) — the original EP is for Kelnor and the Hell Demon?
For the longest time, I was under the impression that the House of Hell CM entry is entirely for Kelnor, since the demon is... a demon. Who does demonic things. Human Sacrifice, collecting worshipers, etc.
There's actually another FF villain from Island of the Undead, very similar to the Hell Demon (the Dire Spectre of Solani Island, note ) that I actually considered proposing, but left out due to concerns if he's Made of Evil / Always Chaotic Evil
If anyone's deserving a cut, it's probably Franklins / the Hell Demon, for MOE / ACE reasons
Edited by RobertTYL on May 28th 2024 at 11:45:43 PM
I feel like that's running into Alternate Character Interpretation for Kelnor. When the guy literally rushes to his Master's corpse and begins hugging it while sobbing hysterically, I personally find that hard to just brush off at panicking over losing his power.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.Someone made an unauthorized addition to M's writeup. I cut it, but my luck with PMing tropers is not great. Let's actually talk about M, though, shall we? He's still an easy keeper, but there's no real evidence that he had any hand in Jade's father raping her. If it's about the "smooth man" and him showing up again when M rapes her, the implication seems to be that the smooth man was just her brain's way of blocking out the realization that she was being molested by her own father. Her seeing the smooth man again is just her connecting the two incidents, or perhaps M psychologically torturing her.
Edited by StrainsOfHorror on May 29th 2024 at 11:25:28 AM

Cut Banner.