Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Showtime!
Yeah I'm pretty sure we cut all Echidna's non-verified CMs?
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
The only one tested, besides Vanitas, was Coach. But they also vouched for Vanitas, and nevertheless his record was deleted. I can give the record back to Coach, but he still needs the EP.
The Genshin Impact duo, all the Voice villains except one, the Cult Leader, the Pirate Leader, Agent Trout, Kinturu and others, were not vouched for and were not removed. The only ones who vouched for them were Vanitas and Coach.
Edited by Ghal-Sur on Feb 16th 2024 at 2:50:57 AM
Showtime!
Vanitas and Coach count as people who can vouch, though?
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
It doesn’t matter because they were plagiarized
The Moron
Okay, but they specifically weren't being individually reviewed, it was part of a mass cut. If they were vouched for they were vouched for. We specifically did that in the manner that put us through the least amount of work while still getting rid of any question marks.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Feb 16th 2024 at 8:18:09 AM
Showtime!
I'm genuinely not sure what the confusion is here. If anyone vouches for them they're good to go and that counts as confirmation
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Re. the Kill the Justice League game, are the Braniacs working together?
Yes they are working together
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Jw anyone familiar with Nemesis the Warlock? It has this on Tomas' character page:
- Even Evil Has Loved Ones: Subverted with Candida, his first wife. While he did love her once, his problem was that he's terrible at expressing that love in non-evil ways, which eventually leads to her going insane and then leaving him after Nemesis cures her. He abandons his love for her after that. He also had two children with her, Pandora and Barbarossa, who were later killed by Nemesis.
- He also cared for his parents and his sister, doing a ceremony to consecrate their remains every few years. The only relative of his he didn't love was his older brother Nostradamus, who tried to steal Candida from him in a few occasions.
The first thing doesn't sound like an issue but the second point?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a twist that Brainiacsation XIII are all probes of the real Brainiac a la Geoff Johns, but for now we must wait.
I don't know it, but yeah, the second seems cut worthy on paper.
Maybe it turns out to be a hive mind or something but as of now we do not know enough
Rejected UAC Marine
"Aw, it's a real shame you're cut. You're actually worth more approved. (Evil Laugh)"
Surprisingly I gotta say cut Penguin. Been a good run for him though
That being said, I have no source.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Still regarding Echidna, are the CM/MB entries for Blue Archive still valid or what? Shouldn't be the case to rewrite said entries in a non-plagiarized way?
"We live in a society" - Winston Churchill, probably
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Pretty sure we removed those.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Yes, they were deleted. Master N, have you seen my message to you?
The problem is that the proposals themselves have been plagiarized and this may leave out important information that could disqualify the candidate. It would be better if the candidate gets an offer (if the villain really matters) to make sure 100 percent that everything is in order.
Libraryseraph:Yes, but the point is that their proposal is still plagiarism. As Yorkobe Shounen said, they are still plagiarized proposals. And no, if you vouch for them, that's certainly good, but they still need a second offer. This is not like with G, where the issue is whether the information is correct and accurate. All suggestions from this user contain plagiarism and they need to be re-suggested anyway. Vanitas was vouched for, but his entrie was deleted anyway and he received a second offer.
Sorry Star, but regardless of assignment, these candidates still need repeat offers. G also had one candidate who was also plagiarized, they vouched for him, but he was still cut and was later re-offered. We also voted to cut all plagiarized user candidates, so I don't see a difference there.
Edited by Ghal-Sur on Feb 17th 2024 at 1:27:00 AM
RIP Toriyama
Ok, picking up a convo that happened a few weeks ago but fizzled out, courtesy of 43110 here:
From Tokyo Ghoul:
- Nimura Furuta, who later takes the name Kichimura Washuu, is the bastard son of Tsuneyoshi Washu. A half-ghoul obsessed with rising to the top, Furuta is the one to dump steel bars on Rize Kamishiro and Ken Kaneki before giving Rize, his half-sister and Lust Object, to Akihiro Kanou for torturous experiments which kill over a hundred people before being perfected. Also a regular attendee of the Ghoul Restaurant where he lures in women to be cooked and devoured, Furuta later reveals his true colors, exterminates the Washuu clan and takes over the CCG where he organizes violent terrorist attacks to tighten his grip on Tokyo, as well as spitefully cooking his nemesis Eto's book editor into a bento box when she insults his lineage. Furuta then has a hundred children made into the mutated Child Soldiers, the Oggai, before attempting to exterminate the innocent ghouls hiding under the city and causing Ken Kaneki to become the monstrous Dragon before sacrificing all the Oggai to him. Gleefully admitting he sees the world as nothing more than a toy chest full of what he can break, Furuta is a vicious, misogynistic would-be tyrant who relishes hurting others in pursuit of his goals.
- Rize Kamishiro, better known as "Binge Eater Rize", is a Ghoul defined by gluttony and selfishness. While most Ghouls are satisfied with a single corpse a month, Rize indulges in killing and devouring multiple humans in a short time, not caring that it brings the authorities from Ghoul hunters on her own people while she skips on to other Wards and leaves others to face the consequences of her actions. Rize is also a vicious sadist who relishes the fear, despair and pain of her victims and has on occasion committed gruesome murders without even eating the victims. Not even other Ghouls are safe from her depravity, as Rize has shown herself willing to slaughter them should they attempt to interfere with her pleasures. She is the one responsible for Ken Kaneki's transformation, having used a Wounded Gazelle Gambit to trick him.
Furuta is the easy one. It's um... unexpected to say the least but his whole last scene has him tell Kaneki he just wanted a normal life and like Ultimate!Red Skull it's done in a very unearned sympathetic light where he literally remembers a happy time when he told Rize he wanted to grow old together. He then dies alone saying to his imagined version of his sister living together would have been nice. It's a bizarre sequence but despite all his mistreatment of Rize these are his last words, something Kaneki clearly pities him for and the narrative uses to show under it all, he really did love her (I make no comment on my thoughts of the writing here). Frustrating but I don't see him staying.
Rize herself is trickier case because technically it's not so much straight redeeming qualities as the manga just decides to start feeling sorry for her. She's given by Furuta to the resident Mad Scientist and her wannabe rapist allows the psycho to restrain, mutilate and torture her to insanity to mass produce half-ghouls. It's skeevy writing with a gross sexual undertone in the first place and Kaneki himself is horrified by what she goes through. Again at the end when she's a broken shell and he puts her down he thanks her for the adventure he had thanks to her making him into a ghoul. Even if she's an awful person I'm really uncomfortable with keeping her given what she goes through combined with the light in which the narrative cases sympathy in a "No one should go through this" tone multiple times. Combined with the fact her binge eater thing is indicated to have initially started with her younger days of living on the run being hunted and that the last time we see her alive is in Furuta's same flashback where she does seem genuinely reciprocal of his feelings. Furuta does call her a manipulator earlier on but said scene is played as such a final light for two siblings almost "molded" into the paths they walk by the abuse they suffered from their father.
Once again no comment on the writing of the ending but it's kind of a weird case where the nasty Starter Villain receives torture that makes her more sympathetic compared to a rapey bigger villain and later said rapey villain winds up being played as actually loving her (I guess just showing it weird *shrugs*).
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
The Moron
That’s not at all how it’s supposed to work. When we mass review candidates, we let them stay if someone vouched for them. That’s what we were told to do. The difference with Vanitas is that the specific proposal was plagiarized, it wasn’t just being mass deleted because of general plagiarism from the user. What’s happening right now is called a “unilateral” decision, and if any that were vouched for were cut and there’s no proof that those proposals were plagiarized, they need to be put back - you don’t get to just decide what needs to happen
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Feb 17th 2024 at 5:02:41 AM
Not the Eye
Cut Tokyo Ghoul duo
Jogo
Cut the Tokyo Ghoul duo
"Stand proud, Sukuna, you are strong." | He/Him
Cut Furuta and Rize.
I'm gonna abstain on Rize because it sounds tough but yeah, Furuta sounds like a weird but solid cut.
RIP Toriyama
And yes STAR is right. We're only needing to fully recertify candidates whose EPs were plagiarized. Just because a user did it once or twice doesn't mean we have to recertify all of their candidates from the starting process. The only Echidna or G candidates that have to be fully reproposed are ones that are provably plagiarized—their other ones that were removed are fine to go back up just so long as someone says they can "verify" the candidate keeps.
"All" suggestions from Echidna were not plagiarism, only some.
Edited by Ravok on Feb 17th 2024 at 2:05:39 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Was this the things that were verified that you just deleted or was it unverified stuff? If it was verified, then it should have stayed.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Feb 16th 2024 at 5:21:27 AM