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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#12101: Jan 30th 2024 at 9:30:49 AM

That's fair then. Regardless, like I said, even if he is an AI, I'm not sure if Monokuma has the agency since he never seems to grow beyond his original programming. Everything he does is what he was programmed to do by his creators.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#12102: Jan 30th 2024 at 9:36:47 AM

Would it be worth it to maybe split off multiple pages from the fan works page now instead of just the Marvel one? We 're getting to too long warning fairly often so I feel like it may be a good idea to do more splits before we get the warning again. Also would people be opposed to possible going through and trimming some of the write ups there? That could help too.

TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#12103: Jan 30th 2024 at 9:45:53 AM

We do have the Dragon Ball fan works in a sandbox, though I do agree that maybe splitting off more would be a good idea.

Wouldn't be opposed to cutting down some of the entries as well, even have some I've been meaning to bring up.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#12104: Jan 30th 2024 at 11:14:55 AM

Yeah. We should just maybe make pages for some.

Like we could probably do A-D listings and take out the subfolders denoting what genre they are from. But I personally prefer splitting off more.

Edited by AustinDR on Jan 30th 2024 at 11:21:19 AM

TheWrongOne41 The Clown is in town (*he*/she/they) from Somewhere, Mexico Since: May, 2022 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
The Clown is in town (*he*/she/they)
#12105: Jan 30th 2024 at 11:22:01 AM

This entry from YMMV.Lost Odyssey i believe needs a rewrite:

  • Gongora aims to Take Over the World. Since several of the main characters are immortal, Gongora had to get creative in getting them out of his way. He did so by sealing away their memories, leaving them completely amnesiac and unaware of their origins, which all of them agree is something like being a walking corpse. For him to be able to do this in the first place, they had to go through something traumatic enough that they wouldn't want to remember, so he abducted Kaim and Sarah's daughter and left them believing she was dead, forced Seth to kill her best friend to save her son, and set giant monsters loose in Ming's kingdom to slaughter her subjects until she agreed to block off her own memories to save them. As a result, Kaim and Seth both end up working for him, Ming becomes a figurehead in the country she's ruled for a thousand years, and Sarah goes insane for several decades. And to top it all off, he magically controls Jansen and forces him to attack his friends and Love Interest.

Here's a take i'm giving it:

  • Gongora, originally an emotionless immortal, becomes corrupt once he's exposed to human emotions, which reveal an ambitiously cruel being. Intending on Taking Over The World, he organized various traumatic events for his colleagues to dwell in despair long enough for him to take their memories, leaving them as "walking corpses" just so that they didn't get in his way. These included kidnapping Kaim and Sarah's daughter, forcing Seth to kill her best friend to save her son, and setting giant monsters in Ming's kingdom as a bargain to force her to block off her own memories. He even magically controlled Jansen so he attacked his friends.

Anyone more familiar to this game so that i add more to this entry?

Edited by TheWrongOne41 on Jan 30th 2024 at 11:24:22 AM

Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice. (also i'm fluid now)
TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#12106: Jan 30th 2024 at 11:32:37 AM

[up][up] Yeah, I agree with that. FNAF definitely has enough entries for a page at least.

Also good with the rewrite there.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
MemeMaster245 The Metal Reaper from Cornfield Since: Apr, 2022 Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
The Metal Reaper
#12107: Jan 30th 2024 at 3:34:25 PM

[up] I second that FNAF Fan Works deserve their own page.

Prepare for a bitter harvest...
mammothhide Since: Jan, 2021
#12108: Jan 30th 2024 at 4:24:06 PM

Found this in the Maria no Danzai YMMV page. Pretty sure it wasn't approved:

  • Complete Monster: Nozomu Okaya. As a second middle schooler in his debut, he already does the most horrific things unimaginable to Kiritaka just because he can't handle being defied and puts his group under his control through fear, not giving a shit about any of them. Before Kiritaka, Okaya has Kinugawa hanging up a poor classmate as the latter pleads to stop while the little shit watches with a calm smile before Kiritaka stops them. He eventually crosses the line by forcing Kiritaka two choices: upload a fake porn video of his mother on media (which could ruin her reputation regardless of whether the public know it's not real) or jump off a cliff without his shoes. And when his toy inadvertently dies, he acts sad because he "let him win and escape." This reaction is enough to realize how irredeemable this demon is.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#12109: Jan 30th 2024 at 5:25:06 PM

Sure to a FNAF Fan Works page.

Anymore opinions on my Marvel Fan Works header suggested here?

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#12110: Jan 30th 2024 at 5:45:27 PM

On the note of potentially shortening entries from fanworks, I have two I want to bring up. Both are from Operation: Turnabout.

  • Captain Adel Renard was a corrupt member of the Peace Corps, selling explosives to enemy groups. When he learned that a group of insurgents were planning to pay him in foreign money that they knew would be useless to him in exchange for Helios-6 explosives, he decided to backstab them first. Convincing the corrupt Captain Janus Harvey to help him deliver the explosives, Renard neglected to give the group the detonator, rendering the explosives useless. He then called the police and had the insurgents sent to the firing squad before they could testify against him. After convincing Harvey to kill most of his platoon to prevent them from ever learning of the incident, Renard proceeded to blackmail Harvey over the incident, knowing that the latter had no evidence the former was involved. When Harvey was going to be granted immunity in exchange for testifying about the Helios-6 incident, Renard poisoned him. After Phoenix exposes his past crimes in court, Renard brags about them to the courtroom while stating that since they were committed overseas, he can't be tried for them. Renard then taunts Siegfried and Victoria about their upcoming executions for a murder they did not commit, even mocking Victoria about her lost eye by calling her a "cyclops".
  • Captain Janus Harvey was a corrupt member of the Peace Corps who constantly mistreated his own troops. He was convinced by Renard to help smuggle explosives to a group of insurgents, not knowing of his manipulations but expecting to receive a legitimate amount of money while the insurgents would be able to use the explosives for whatever evil intents they had. After being betrayed and despite knowing he couldn't prove Renard was involved, Harvey still followed his advice to murder most of his platoon in an explosion so they could never uncover what he had done. Harvey never felt any remorse for his actions, and spent the rest of his life trying to pin the blame on others while insisting he had done no wrong, only agreeing to testify about the incident when he was promised immunity for any involvement.

I do think they both count (albiet Harvey less so) but I'm conflicted about these entries. Their main heinous act that pushes them over is shared between them and both entries have details that don't really fit (for instance, Renard only gave explosives to the insurgents and his betrayal of them isn't onscreen). They could share an entry, but in that case they only worked together for the explosives smuggling and killing Harvey's company. After which Renard blackmailed Harvey to keep him quiet and later killed him when he was about to testify in exchange for immunity to being charged for the Helios-6 incident. They're not really a partnership.

So should we trim the entries and merge them? Or do something else?

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#12111: Jan 31st 2024 at 5:58:46 AM

So, is that Gundam a consensus removal, and for the reason not heinous enough?

What about that Danganronpa one?

Mr-ex777 Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#12112: Jan 31st 2024 at 6:00:42 AM

[up] Yes the Gundam guy is a concensus cut and so is Tsumugi.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#12113: Jan 31st 2024 at 6:06:23 AM

What was the reason for Tsumugi again? Too much of a cog in the machine?

jlvs200s from The Netherlands (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: I miss my wife, Tails
#12114: Jan 31st 2024 at 6:08:31 AM

[up] Yup, that's the reason.

"The time has come for every last Shoppe... No! The time has come for the DREAM KINGDOM to bow down to me! Gotcha ! Hee-hee!" | He/Him
YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
#12115: Jan 31st 2024 at 7:16:20 AM

Noticed that Manfred Von Karmas writeup does not have his Investagtions 2 crime of torture which is kinda of noteworthy by the series standard so let me advocate for this change

  • Ace Attorney: Manfred von Karma is an amoral prosecutor who uses underhanded tactics to maintain his perfect win streak. Manfred is desperate enough to preserve his winning streak that he takes to subjecting Jeffrey Masters to a whole year of psychological torment to break him into confessing, finally coercing him after spitefully threatening to get his beloved daughter convicted instead. When defense attorney Gregory Edgeworth gets him penalized in a trial by exposing his illegal tactics, Manfred becomes enraged despite still winning said trial, taking the chance given by an earthquake striking the courtroom to catch up with Gregory and his son Miles in an elevator and murdering Gregory.Gregory, leading to Edgeworth having nightmares about the fact he might have killed his father every day for 15 years. Taking Miles under his wing, Manfred raises him to become a cold, ruthless prosecutor who cares for nothing but always winning a guilty verdict. Setting up a second murder, Manfred plans to frame Miles for both it and his own father's death, intending to see his adoptive son convicted for murder as the final act of his revenge against Gregory.

This ok?

Edited by YorkobeShounen on Jan 31st 2024 at 8:50:37 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
#12117: Jan 31st 2024 at 8:17:58 AM

The crimes from Investgstions 2 where he tortures a guy for year to give a false confession

I feel it’s necessary because it shows how far he went to get guilty verdicts

Also the Edgeworth having nightmares

So again is this acceptable?

Edited by YorkobeShounen on Jan 31st 2024 at 8:45:25 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#12118: Jan 31st 2024 at 8:47:56 AM

Seems fine, but could you please bold or italicize the changes?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#12120: Jan 31st 2024 at 8:54:41 AM

Works. It's Miles that has the nightmares, right?

Ghal-Sur Since: Dec, 2021
#12122: Jan 31st 2024 at 10:17:20 AM

Rewriting Manfred.

Turles The Vegan:Personally, I think it would be better to just rewrite both entries. They both seem to do little in common (even if this is their worst crime) and are generally both independent enough to have their own record. We had quite a few C Ms who may have shared the worst crime among themselves, but still received separate records because they had enough independent crimes.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#12123: Jan 31st 2024 at 1:02:33 PM

I added my header to Monster Marvel Fan Works. Now we just need to decide which quote to use. Are we all goof to list the MCU fan works together.

Edit: Thinking about it I should have waited for more opinions on my header. If you guys want me to remove it I will.

Edited by Bullman on Jan 31st 2024 at 3:32:29 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#12124: Jan 31st 2024 at 2:37:43 PM

It works, unless we just wanna crib from DC:

The DCU and related works based on DC Comics have been around since 1934 and have naturally inspired thousands of Fan Works. Given the source material, it's only natural that some of the villains are irredeemably evil.

Carnage for the quote works best IMO.

Edited by ACW on Jan 31st 2024 at 5:38:02 AM

TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#12125: Jan 31st 2024 at 3:46:12 PM

[up][up][up] I definitely agree that a rewrite is needed, yeah. I can whip some up but I'd like some more thoughts before I do anything.

[up][up] I'm fine with the Marvel header myself and would prefer a unique one, and we did agree to put the MCU entries together to my recollection.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.

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