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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

Hardcorebatmanfan Since: Mar, 2021 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#11651: Jan 13th 2024 at 12:56:46 PM

Season 3: Father John Hughes is a member of The Economic League and by far its most vile member. A Pedophile Priest who raped the children under his "care", he notably disgusts even the hardened Tommy. When Tommy tries to kill Hughes, Hughes orders his men to ambush and beat Tommy up to the point his skull gets crushed. He later has Tommy "apologize" for trying to kill him in front of the League before being revealed to have molested Tommy's cousin, Michael Gray, in his childhood. He then has Tommy blow up a train full of innocents, so that he and the league could profit from its destruction. Should Tommy not do the deed, Hughes will rape and kill Tommy's son whom he's holding hostage.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#11652: Jan 13th 2024 at 4:18:41 PM

Alright, things have calmed down enough from G and Echidna's issues that I think it's time for me to handle something that I should have handled a while ago. Long story short, we need to cut some of the classics from our old favorite story, War of Remnant: A RWBY Anthology. Long story short, since we last talked, the fic fully entered Dark Fic territory if it wasn't there already. I don't want to get in detail on everything, so I'm only going to focus on the three that I think need to go (and, since I'm not going into a whole lot of detail, I ask that if there's concerns about how I'm representing something, please remember that I proposed everyone I'm voting to cut):

  • Simon Blade: When I first proposed him and when I first updated the list, he kept because he had no resources, but we've hit the Van Zant syndrome point where that doesn't matter anymore. Even considering his role with Watts' plans, he's just not heinous enough anymore when just about every fucking person in the fic is either a Serial Rapist or is somehow capable of destroying an entire city.
  • Carter Pillar: Again, at the time what let him keep was his relative brutality compared to his resources (especially because he's one of the few villains not connected to Salem in some way), and I don't think that distinction matters anymore. Countless villains equal his torture and his role in the slave trade isn't enough for me anymore. Slice him.
  • Miranda Spot: Yeah, raping her own children is still unique to her, but again, it and her participation in Jax's stuff is not enough anymore. Just look at Ronald Atwood's entry below it, then remember that there are at least three characters for whom rape and/or targeting children is either common or severely implied that I have not mentioned yet. Slash her too.

I think the others are still fine, but those three need to go, and I need to go finally unsubscribe from the fic before it genuinely harms my mental health.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jan 13th 2024 at 7:21:25 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#11653: Jan 13th 2024 at 4:22:00 PM

I'm fine cutting. But geez, if someone who rapes her own kids isn't bad enough...

Any of the others need expansions?

Also, are Echidna's gone from the Sandboxes and YMMV pages

EDIT: Wait, what about Miranda's killing everyone in those five villages?

Edited by ACW on Jan 13th 2024 at 7:23:25 AM

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#11655: Jan 13th 2024 at 4:24:14 PM

@ACW: None of the other keepers have appeared since the entries were last updated. If someone wants to take care of that from now on, be my guest, but I wasn't kidding when I said I'm dropping the fic after this.

Edit:

Wait, what about Miranda's killing everyone in those five villages?

Bro, "it and her participation in Jax's stuff is not enough anymore." The only reason I'm giving Jax any credit is that he's trying to destroy two Kingdoms instead of just one, and he's the only one capable of doing that who's not connected to Salem.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jan 13th 2024 at 7:28:27 AM

TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#11656: Jan 13th 2024 at 4:25:12 PM

Yeah, cut those three.

[up][up] I know Nicky Cavella from Punisher: Uprising on Fan Works is still there.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#11657: Jan 13th 2024 at 4:25:26 PM

Jebus, you weren't kidding about it getting absurdly dark.

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
The Ultimate Lifeform
#11659: Jan 13th 2024 at 4:28:29 PM

...I'm geniunely curious how anyone can count in a story that is this grimdark. As you yourself said basically every villain is some kind of Serial Rapist, so how can anyone stand out when everyone else is just as horrible? I swear I'm not trying to hate on this... thing... but its honestly sounds like its approaching or has already crossed the threshold of "When everyone is a Complete Monster, nobody is", because no one can reasonably pass the heinous standard. Am I wrong for thinking this? I mean, obviously cut the three STAR pointed out, but I can't help but wonder about this.

"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#11660: Jan 13th 2024 at 4:30:16 PM

You may have a point. Then again, WH 40 K has quite a few keepers, and that's where grimdark came from.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#11661: Jan 13th 2024 at 4:31:58 PM

  • Watts is behind the attempted destruction of two entire Kingdoms with a bunch of casualties attached.
  • Jacques Schnee is an international slave trader
  • Damian attempts to destroy Vale twice, succeeds the second time, and is basically the fic's king of torture.
  • Adam is alongside him trying to destroy Vale, tries to destroy Haven, and kills hundreds along the way
  • Wendigo has a rap sheet going back centuries that includes forced cannibalism
  • Jax tries to destroy two Kingdoms, and is the only person capable of doing so not connected to Salem
  • Ronald Atwood is Ronald Atwood, I'm not going to discuss him any further honestly.

These seven do still manage to stand out, as grimdark as the fic is. The issue for the others is that they were skating by by being lower on the resource totem pole when that's no longer enough for them to stay in.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#11662: Jan 13th 2024 at 4:33:45 PM

Would Torture Technician work somewhere in Damian's entry?

Edited by ACW on Jan 13th 2024 at 7:33:57 AM

ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
The Ultimate Lifeform
#11663: Jan 13th 2024 at 4:34:16 PM

[up][up]Okay, okay, I'm sorry, I swear I wasn't trying to argue in bad faith its just... hearing that someone who molests her own kids alongside gruesome murder isn't heinous enough, it just makes it difficult for me personally to envision anyone else keeping. I'm certainly not arguing they do, its just difficult for me personally.

Edited by ForgoLight on Jan 13th 2024 at 4:34:26 AM

"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#11664: Jan 13th 2024 at 4:34:24 PM

[up][up]Knock yourself out.

[up] Wasn't saying anything was bad faith Forgo, you're good, I was just clarifying the situation.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jan 13th 2024 at 7:35:26 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#11665: Jan 13th 2024 at 4:37:56 PM

I used Torture Technician for his name and moved Ax-Crazy around "killing as many people as possible".

Now that that's taken care of, Echidna's getting removed?

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#11666: Jan 13th 2024 at 4:41:44 PM

Cut the RWBY darkfic villains

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#11667: Jan 13th 2024 at 5:18:38 PM

Yeah, the other two seem fine to cut, but raping your own children to me is just a unique enough niche to stand out.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#11668: Jan 13th 2024 at 5:19:35 PM

Snip those 3!

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#11670: Jan 13th 2024 at 5:28:06 PM

Even besides those three, I want some more scrutiny. Destroying or attempting to destroy kingdoms itself seems incredibly common in this Dark Fic.

Honestly, Adam or Watts really impress me. What Watts tries to do others seem to succeed with far less resources, and Adam seems inherently less bad than his "king of torture" partner in crime Damian. Frankly, I'm also wary on Jacques as all the rape and genocide appear to stack higher in the heinous category than a slave trade.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#11671: Jan 13th 2024 at 5:35:18 PM

I got a cut proposal of my own as well, one of my previous candidates, quite similar to Miranda Spot in fact.

From The Dragon Tamer :

The arguments I used in her favor in her EP weren’t the best really.

What we’re dealing with is a 2k-long fanfic that essentially exclusively focuses on Serena’s rape of Charlie. While she doesn’t even appear in half of it, there’s too much focus on it without a wider more substantial plot for me to be comfortable with her staying up.

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#11673: Jan 13th 2024 at 6:05:06 PM

Cut Serena

Again, Watts tries to destroy two Kingdoms (and succeeded in one) and is currently working on destroying Atlas and Mantle (where I left off, he just gave Paul Parrot nerve gas bombs for him to distribute across Mantle to destroy it alongside their detonator) and is personally responsible for dozens if not hundreds of deaths in unrelated attacks, while Adam, despite not being the leader of the White Fang like Damian is (just a high ranking operative) is also involved in trying to destroy Vale twice, tries to destroy Haven, and has hundreds of personal kills on his record. If anything, I think Damian is the one I’d more likely cut between him and Adam but I don’t have a problem with any of those three staying.

Jacques meanwhile is responsible for the enslavement and deaths of thousands of people since he’s Jax’s biggest customer and also has several of his own terrorist attacks under his belt, all before he became connected to Salem through Watts, and now that he is he’s perfectly fine letting Watts and other war criminals do what they want with Atlas. He’s fine too

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jan 13th 2024 at 9:06:31 AM

TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#11674: Jan 13th 2024 at 6:26:07 PM

Snip Serena.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
fanman "To watch it all burn." from Earth-Prime/Earth-1218 Since: Feb, 2022 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
"To watch it all burn."
#11675: Jan 13th 2024 at 6:28:07 PM

Cut the three from the Grimmdark fic.


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