Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread
.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here
) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread
.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread
, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread
. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
It's been awhile since I've read Gone, but I don't remember him caring for his father at all
"We'll meet again" | 🏳️⚧️@Agentofchaos Ok, so I just read the sections the wikis referred to and they’re a lot more implicit than the wikis make it out to be.
There’s a scene where Drake reflects on his dad teaching him how to shoot and he seems to look on that fondly. However, that may to be more to do with his affinity for violence than any care for his dad.
One scene that seems to be slightly less implicit is the scene where Connie Temple speaks to Drake’s grandfather and he states that Drake got more troubled after the death of his father. This is still pretty implicit though as we don’t know the full reasons.
Looking at it now, I can see him still falling under CM as any care he may have for his father is very vague. I may make some edits on the original pages so they’re less conclusive and there’s less misinformation. Apologies for not checking beforehand
Speaking of that, here's the Punisher rewrites:
- Tiberiu Bulat is one of the titular slavers, and lacks his son Cristu or their associate Vera's redeeming qualities. Tiberiu led an Eastern European militia during The Yugoslav Wars responsible for ethnic cleansing, slaughtering several entire villages until Cristu got the idea to take young women captive, an idea that Tiberiu approved of. The countless women were forced into sexual slavery and sent to the United States to export the business, where they were further tortured and raped on a daily basis. Tiberiu is a sadistic, trigger-happy madman who'll kill anyone at the slightest provocation, introducing himself in the present horribly torturing and killing an entire gang of rivals just to send a message that he "isn't an old woman". When Cristu tries to assassinate him for being too volatile, Tiberiu eagerly tries to kill his own son, and holds an innocent at knifepoint in an attempt to ward off the Punisher.
- Naked Kill, written by Jonathan Maberry: Polly Hu and Mickey Fane's nephew Eleventhree run a horrific human trafficking operation, and unlike Mickey himself, have no redeeming features. Taking monthly shipments of women and making rough pornography with them, they eventually force the women to kill one another until one can go free, only to make her film a video with Eleventhree, named for his massive size, to the point where Eleventhree simply rapes his victim to death. Polly also regularly brings Mickey girls to rape while filming Eleventhree in his movies. When Frank arrives, Eleventhree is in the middle of another rape-murder while Polly watches on with smug satisfaction.
Edited by Ravok on Jan 12th 2024 at 8:54:42 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Yeah uh Drakes relationship with his dad is really never gotten into it.
The most we get is. Drake was a sociopath and the only time he ever connected with him was he taught him how to use fire arms and shoot people which uh I really don't think is meant to be more than drake was intersted in the guy for teaching him violence.
Looks good.
And tbh I dint think ozai'a new write up is any better than the old.
Edited by miraculous on Jan 12th 2024 at 11:40:30 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Arawn:Certainly. Sorry I made a mistake.
About Ozai, I apologize if my rewrite is bad, but I explained why I added or changed something. Sorry, but I'm firmly in favor of at least his attempt at corrupting Zuko being mentioned. Sorry, but I don’t like the idea that “the recording needs to be shortened as little as possible, while omitting some of the villain’s very vile crimes.” October 6, 2021 43110, Ravok and Lighty have made it clear that there is no need to try to shorten entries just for the sake of shortening and I just honestly think that the current entry of Ozai is missing out on some of his rather nasty crimes.
I'll just choose to ignore the unnecessary and rude comment (,,I don't care about this rewrite", if the user doesn't care about rewrite, why comment? Sorry, but it sounds pretty rude and disrespectful to another user's work) and say that I welcome discussion and any advice on how better make a record. Honestly, after watching the footage again, I'll leave out the part where he sacrifices his people, because that's not all that much he does in that regard. And I'll just tweak the recording a little bit. As it is now?
- Fire Lord Ozai is the merciless and power-hungry ruler of the Fire Nation, seeking to impose his tyrannical rule on the world. Ozai gains the throne by manipulating his wife Ursa into helping kill his father Azulon, and then exiles her on pain of death, preventing her from seeing her children again. Ozai controls every aspect of his family's lives, limiting their freedom and encouraging their worst traits just to please him:he punishes his son Prince Zuko whenever he shows kindness or mercy, going so far as to burn his face and banish him for saying anything; he calls on his daughter Princess Azula to become the perfect and merciless weapon for the Fire Nation, only to discard her when he no longer needs her and tries to kill Zuko with lightning,when he finally turns against Ozai. Waging a bloody war that has broken and claimed countless lives, Ozai's monstrosity reaches its apogee when, faced with open rebellion in the Earth Kingdom, he decides to use Sozin's Comet to burn the entire continent and rule from the ashes as the Phoenix King. Even though defeated and imprisoned, Ozai tries to manipulate Zuko into corrupting him and turning him into a ruthless tyrant like himself. A terrible father and cruel dictator willing to destroy countless lives, including members of his own family, in his ferocious quest for control and domination over everyone, Ozai represents the dark and cruel side of the world of Avatar.
Yes. Any thoughts on re-recording Ozai?
Unsure if I'm being quoted for something I said almost 2.5 years ago but if I am I don't really appreciate being drawn into something with such a large time gap I think it would have been in better form to just ask my thoughts rather than act like I'm tied to an opinion I may have held a long time ago. Likewise, I think Shadao's entry is good and they adequately covered what needs to be stated in Ozai's entry.
Sorry, but I didn't involve you in anything. I just think it would be nice to mention some of his other crimes. Sorry if the mention offended you, I just thought it was a similar case, so I quoted it.
Okay, how about this?
- Fire Lord Ozai is a power-hungry tyrant of the Fire Nation, seeking to impose his tyrannical rule on the world. Ozai gains the throne by manipulating his wife Ursa into helping kill his father Azulon, and then exiles her on pain of death, preventing her from seeing her children again. Ozai controls every aspect of his family's life, restricting their freedom and encouraging their worst traits just to please him: he punishes his son Prince Zuko whenever he shows kindness or mercy, going so far as to burn his face and expels him for saying turn; he encourages his daughter Princess Azula to become the perfect and merciless weapon for the Fire Nation, only to discard her when he no longer needs or wants her and attempts to kill Zuko with lightning when he finally turns against Ozai. Faced with open rebellion in the Earth Kingdom, Ozai plans to use Sozin's Comet to burn the entire continent and rule from the ashes as the Phoenix King. Even though defeated and imprisoned, Ozai tries to manipulate Zuko into corrupting him and turning him into a ruthless tyrant like himself. A terrible father and cruel dictator, willing to destroy countless lives, including members of his own family, in his ferocious quest for control and domination over everyone, Ozai represents the dark and cruel side of the world of Avatar.
Edited by Ghal-Sur on Jan 13th 2024 at 8:11:19 AM
Is it bad to at least mention his attempt to corrupt Zuko? I think this also deserves a mention. Moreover, The Living Drawing also liked the fact that he is trying to kill his own son with lightning.
Okay, I'll ask Shadao. Let his opinion decide this issue.
Edited by Ghal-Sur on Jan 13th 2024 at 8:45:29 AM
I'm just asking his opinion and that's all. I know the rules very well.
But okay, never mind. I'm canceling my rewrite. I see no one likes my work, my explanation only annoys others. Sorry, The Living Drawing will have to do without the attempted murder of his son. And I will have to accept the fact that his attempt to corrupt Zuko will also go to waste. Hmm, so much effort and time and all in vain. Eh.
Although Shadao did an excellent job in any case and it is true that he mentioned the most important thing. I just wanted to add something and that's all. I'm not worried about Ozai anymore, sorry for wasting your precious time.
I meant that his point of view would allow me to finally explain to me whether I should reject my rewrite or whether it could go into the sandbox. I appreciate the opinions of everyone who actually spoke out. Just Shadao's opinion would help me finally finally understand this issue. However, now it doesn't matter.
Edited by Ghal-Sur on Jan 13th 2024 at 9:50:04 AM
Well, it's probably no use anymore, but if I wasn't a no before, consider me a cut for Younger Princess Shroob. If we're still voting on her - and honestly I don't think it's happening any time soon given her support on the threads. Ah well. She's just a silly Mushroom Alien. I won't belabour the point.
I won't lie, I was worried just a lil when we saw more of Hela's backstory, but mir is right about the whole Alt Universe thing going on. I didn't even realise Fenrir got a gender flip lol.
Ozai's fine.
Edited by PolarPhantom on Jan 13th 2024 at 4:19:41 AM
So, I recently read through the YMMV of Peaky Blinders and came across Hughes‘ CM entry.
Season 3: Father John Hughes is a member of The Economic League and by far its most vile member. First appearing before Tommy after getting him arrested, Hughes tells him on how easy he can get to him and his family, something he makes clear when he along with his co-conspirators arranges for Tommy to be assassinated, with his wife Grace Taking the Bullet for him. In retaliation, Tommy attempts to kill Hughes, only for Hughes ordering his men to ambush and beat Tommy up to the point his skull gets crushed. He later has Tommy "apologize" for trying to kill him in front of the League before revealing himself to be a Pedophile Priest who raped the children under his "care"; Tommy's cousin, Michael Gray, was one of his victims. He then has Tommy blow up a train full of innocents, so that he and the league could profit from its destruction. Should Tommy not do the deed, Hughes will rape and kill Tommy's son whom he's holding hostage.
Now, Hughes is obviously a really easy keeper, for, obvious reasons, however he wasn’t actually involved in the assassination of Tommy’s wife. Everything presented in the show points to that being a completely independent move by a completely independent crime lord as retaliation for John assaulting his son and Tommy attacking his business.

@Agentofchaos this is probably like really old now but I found you read the original Gone series by Michael Grant as well and I’m unsure on Drake Merwin’s placement as CM.
Don’t get me wrong, he’s a completely detestable scumbag throughout and only gets worse in the sequel books, but I recall that he actually does have 1 mitigating factor in the story, that being his love for his late father. I believe he mentions him in Plague and I think his grandfather also said his dad’s death effected him
While that aspect of his character is kind of abandoned in the sequel books, I don’t remember it ever being subverted either. I may be wrong on this, it’s been quite a while since I read the books, but if it still holds up I think Drake Merwin may be worth considering for removal from CM (as crazy as that sounds). Just want to check first though
Edited by BlockIdol on Jan 12th 2024 at 5:13:15 AM