Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Goku Black
Yeah but my point is if these characters are going to get downvoted anyway.
What's the point of even changing the rule?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Caesar
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
This. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. But this way the discussions can happen without someone just going "6 members? Too many, no automatically." It lets us have a talk and discuss things, and that's what matters.
That's the thing, you don't know they'll be automatically downvoted by everyone. There might be a compelling case if and when such a group ever did come up. Is it unlikely, sure, but it hurts literally no one by just removing the hard limit—in fact it's even weirder to keep the rule but set a hard limit, because then someone can go "wait, if we allow 4, why not 5?" By removing the hard limit itself right off the bat, we open the door for proper case-by-case discussion.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Yes, exactly.
Edited by Ravok on Dec 25th 2023 at 5:29:04 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Like the only change is the hard limit is no longer capped at 3. That isn't to say we're going to get groups of 7 or 8 going up left and right, but just that it's not an automatic "more than 3? ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
"
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Heck, I have a group of eight who MAY count.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Caesar
With the latest Moon Knight run done, let me give our old pal Zodiac an updated write-up:
- Zodiac is a knowingly evil lover of chaos and wickedness who makes it his life's mission to cause as much random destruction as possible. First appearing in Dark Reign: Zodiac, Zodiac tortures over 100 people to death to send a message to Norman Osborn, then viciously beats the Human Torch to near-death before bombing the hospital he is transported to. Later unleashing a giant robot onto a city that kills hundreds more, Zodiac uses the chaos to pull off even more murderous schemes. Decorating his hideout in severed heads and manipulating his partners into servitude even while he endangers their lives with zero concern, Zodiac ends up using the teen supervillain gang the Young Masters to declare war on the old guard of supervillains, leading to terrorist attacks across the world—notably Latveria—that end countless lives. Returning much later to torment Moon Knight, Zodiac sics a variety of vicious villains onto the hero, knowing they will rack up collateral damage, and makes it his personal hobby to try to kill everyone Moon Knight loves—even targeting an entire neighborhood of people. Zodiac eagerly helps the Black Spectre in his scheme to drive New York insane, only to then torture Black Spectre to death for "stealing" Moon Knight's killing from him.
Love the rewrite there!
Okay so we've got a villain from Kingdom (2019) listed, effort post here. I'm calling for discussion because I don't think the original post was as comprehensive as it ought to have been. Looking at her character sheet, a couple things jump out at me:
- Last Words: "Father, are you watching? You see? They will take nothing from me."
- The Unfavorite: Her father just thinks of her as a way to gain power within the court and cares more about a potential heir than her.
I'm leaning for a removal at least for now because a quick glance tells me at the very least her final words—which for the record, she says with a certain calm composure that's rare for CMs, even those who do Face Death with Dignity—are indeed correct and that should have been acknowledged when she was posted.
Thoughts?
Leaning cut, if her last words are about her father it makes me think she was effected by his abuse
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Cut Consort Cho.
Caesar
Snip away on that one.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Barb / Temporary Kylo
Lizzid people!
Go ahead.
Not the Eye
Gentle Laborer
I have a question regarding one of the currently listed examples from League of Legends, Tahm Kench:
- Tahm Kench, the River King, is an obese water demon with an insatiable hunger who lurks in Bilgewater's rivers and seas, seeking the desperate so he can entice his victims into accepting his bargains. Tahm Kench lavishes unimaginable fame and fortune upon his marks, allowing his victims enough time to truly cherish their wealth, before eventually coming back and taking everything they hold dear. In his teaser trailer, Tahm Kench recounts a time where he tempted a gambler who eventually struck rich and was to be married to a princess, only for Tahm to return years later and snap up everything, from the wedding gifts, to the buffet, to the bride herself. Living only to satisfy his bottomless stomach, Tahm Kench has terrorized Runeterra since ancient times, pulling the same trick over and over again, and his silver tongue conceals a pitch-black heart.
So, I don't know anything about League of Legends, except from what I have seen from Arcane, but according to his entry, all he does is offer riches to people through his deals, and then he appears and takes everything from his victims, leaving them with nothing.
Does he actually do anything aside from what is written in his entry because he sounds really underwhelming compared to all of the other listed examples? And if he does keep, I feel his entry needs a serious rewrite from someone familiar with League of Legends to highlight what makes him heinous enough.
Edited by WatTambor on Dec 27th 2023 at 10:34:11 PM
I think he eats them too, from the quotes page
Ok, that definitely should be included in his entry.
Goku Black
Cut Cho.
So I normally I woudkt advocate something so extreme but should we check the rest of G's candidates. If you guys can vouch for anyone he's done thats fine staying but I feel at this point we should double check at least most.
Edited by miraculous on Dec 27th 2023 at 11:18:20 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The Draftsman of Doom
Cut Cho.
This is part of why I sometimes point out where works can legally be accessed, so that if I mess up, there's some transparency.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Unless there's some mitigating quality, I think Zorgen and Mullens are bad enough.
Ditto Blessard and Hazard.
Same for the CSI-verse and Bellisarioverse ones (and having seen the ep, I can vouch for Karen Bright).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Again if you guys can vouch for someone. I'm fine not discussing that.
I know crow vouched for Mullins. And I'll vouch for the other ncsi and Hawaii fibe 0 examples he did.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lies and Violence!
I'm a little unsure on Professor Pyg, since he's just a serial killer in a show filled with crazy psychopaths and super villains. Forcing a bunch of his victims to eat human meat pies is the only thing that makes him really stand out.
Lady Bullseye is good from memory, but I have concerns about the two characters listed on MB.
Cut Cho.
Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Dec 27th 2023 at 2:41:03 PM
Well here's CMs Approved by G-Editor
We did cut Kuroda purely because we had plenty of evidence that Neeku couldn't be trusted and he only got reapproved when I did him
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Caesar
Only ones I can personally say are rock-solid from G are Tully, D'Arby, Mateo, Yuma Lau, Chernabog, and the Fan Zone Killer. Any others I either have no experience with or have doubts on their qualifying.
Edited by Ravok on Dec 27th 2023 at 11:58:55 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Again, it's really hard to argue for hypothetical situations when the entire point is that people want to take it case by case - because the answer for literally every hypothetical situation would be "it depends"