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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Iceaura39 from Where joy and happiness go to cry (Petty Master) Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
#10302: Nov 17th 2023 at 3:04:49 PM

From the information, I say keep Zeke if he doesn't show actual care for her.

Black Hat was brought up again earlier today. Should he be put on the Resolved Items list?

It is I, the narrator, categorising addict and writer of books you haven't read.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#10303: Nov 17th 2023 at 3:06:48 PM

Honestly let's just put him their. I can think of like 5 times someone has prosper him and it's just annoying to have to repeat the same points

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#10304: Nov 17th 2023 at 4:03:57 PM

Ezekiel is a weird case who I have long anticipated to be questioned, but I don't think his relationship with Sasha is at all an issue. He really does just wax poetic with her and trust her with parts of his plan, but it's all solely self-centered around his own egotistical desires and there's never a moment where he sincerely has tenderness with her... it's, to make a comparison, very similar to Shogo's relationship with Choe. They have an amicable boss-assistant relationship and share some interesting literature recommendations with each other but there's nothing to really say 100% there's sincere care between them. And I think that pretty much applies with Zeke and Sasha, they chat but it's very surface level and ultimately ends with Zeke just bragging his plans to her.

Oh, and him not caring about Iron Man killing his dad is...actually portrayed to make Zeke worse. Iron Man is plainly stunned that Zeke doesn't have an ounce of desire for revenge on him for his role in Obadiah's death—Zeke just remarks "Oh yeeeeaaah, you did have something to do with his death, didn't you?", and when Iron Man is shocked by Zeke's flippantness, Zeke just chuckles that his father's death "wasn't as important an event in my life as you might imagine!"

43 gets the gist across the best: Zeke is an edgelord teenager whose interactions with Sasha amount to him using her as a sounding board for his plan.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#10306: Nov 17th 2023 at 4:32:05 PM

[up][up]So, kinda like Ajax's relationship with Angel Dust? Perfectly amicable, but no real care?

Iceaura39 from Where joy and happiness go to cry (Petty Master) Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
#10307: Nov 17th 2023 at 4:35:49 PM

How's this look?

It is I, the narrator, categorising addict and writer of books you haven't read.
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#10308: Nov 17th 2023 at 4:37:25 PM

Hi guys, I'm coming back.


Anyway, keep Stane, doesn't seem like a genuine friendship

On another note, I've noticed the entries for The Messenger (2018) and Sea of Stars are on different pages even though Sea of stars is canonically a prequel to the Messenger and has several Call Forwards to it

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
eruptor142 Since: Mar, 2021
#10309: Nov 17th 2023 at 4:53:32 PM

I was wondering if I could do a minor edit to one entry. Omen's write-up has a spelling mistake in it ("Ninjini" is misspelled as "Ninijini"), and I'd like to fix it. Is that okay?

Edited by eruptor142 on Nov 17th 2023 at 7:53:50 AM

Idisagree Since: Jun, 2011
#10310: Nov 17th 2023 at 4:58:19 PM

[tup] to adding Blackhat to the never again list. He's been shot down for being a parody of both a Complete Monster and an Invincible Villain multiple times and his actions being mostly Played for Laughs. Despite his power and competence, he's also way too petty to be a Magnificent Bastard. I wish people would stop bringing him here.

Also Turbo's (Wreck It Ralph) actions aren't entirely unrelated to the Cybug attack. One of them eats him but he retains his ego and proceeds to join them (even pretending he's their leader). That being said, he belongs on the list as well and still fails the heinous standard. I just wanted to correct some misinformation there.

Edited by Idisagree on Nov 17th 2023 at 4:58:32 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#10311: Nov 17th 2023 at 5:32:14 PM

Eruptor: I've taken care of that.

Chaos: Is there an official name for the shared universe?

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
Neeku-Nekku-Nakuru-Nikua Since: Nov, 2023
#10313: Nov 17th 2023 at 6:12:59 PM

So am I correct when I see that you think that Ezekiel does not really care about Sasha, just keeps her around to stroke his own ego? Does anyone else feel otherwise, because I saw one agree with me actually?

Ghal-Sur Since: Dec, 2021
#10314: Nov 18th 2023 at 5:50:13 AM

Iceaura 39: Good job, look very high quality and excellent.

Welcome back Chaos! How nice it is to see you again. This is such a comfort. Hopeyus and Scraggle will return when he is comfortable.

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#10315: Nov 18th 2023 at 7:18:36 AM

Just a quick change I want to make

Original

To

I just want to put the bit about him feeding his slaves red lyrium before the Fate Worse than Death part, since it's a big reason why it's a Fate Worse than Death and putting it after makes it seem like it's not.

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
MemeMaster245 The Metal Reaper from Cornfield Since: Apr, 2022 Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
The Metal Reaper
#10316: Nov 18th 2023 at 8:13:06 AM

Put Black Hat on the 'never again' list.

Also, where is the 'never again' list?

Also also, I know it hasn't been long enough, but I feel like someone should maybe keep an eye on that new Stranger Things play. It might have something to disqualify Vecna.

[down] Thanks.

Edited by MemeMaster245 on Nov 18th 2023 at 4:18:29 PM

Prepare for a bitter harvest...
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#10317: Nov 18th 2023 at 8:14:52 AM

The never again list was renamed the "resolved items" list on the bottom of the administrivia page

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#10318: Nov 18th 2023 at 8:41:39 AM

Don't want to double post, but on YMMV.Darkness Series changed Swemmel's entry from this

  • Swemmel, the half-mad king of Unkerlant, is probably the single most tyrannical ruler in the story. Seizing power after the Twinkings War, Swemmel's first act as king was to have his twin brother and rival Kyot boiled alive in a cauldron, before launching a massive purge of the nobility. Ruling through fear alone, Swemmel cut a deal with King Mezentio of Algarve to divide Forthweg between them, then invaded neutral Zuwayza while the rest of the continent was distracted by the war against Algarve. When the Algarvians double-crossed Swemmel and invaded Unkerlant, Swemmel sacrificed his own peasants in magical rituals in order to buy time, declaring that so long as he had one subject left at the end of the war and Mezentio had none, he would be the victor. When the war begins to swing in his direction, Swemmel proves himself as bad a winner as he is a loser, enslaving Algarvian prisoners, executing Grelzan prisoners, and boiling "King" Rainero of Grelz the same way he did Kyot. A paranoid megalomaniac, Swemmel finds himself the most powerful man on the continent at the end of the war, and is contemplating starting a new one against his erstwhile allies Lagoas and Kusammo.

To this

  • Swemmel, the half-mad king of Unkerlant, is probably the single most tyrannical ruler in the story.
    • Seizing power after the Twinkings War, Swemmel's first act as king was to have his twin brother and rival Kyot boiled alive in a cauldron, before launching a massive purge of the nobility. Ruling through fear alone, Swemmel cut a deal with King Mezentio of Algarve to divide Forthweg between them, then invaded neutral Zuwayza while the rest of the continent was distracted by the war against Algarve.
    • When the Algarvians double-crossed Swemmel and invaded Unkerlant, Swemmel sacrificed his own peasants in magical rituals in order to buy time, declaring counter Algarvian blood magic; while harsh necessity may have dictated this, he callously declares that so long as he had one subject left at the end of the war and Mezentio had none, he would be the victor. When victor.
    • As the war begins to swing in his direction, Swemmel proves himself as bad a winner as he is a loser, enslaving Algarvian enemy prisoners, executing Grelzan prisoners, purging loyalist Grelzer guerillas after reclaiming their Duchy, and boiling "King" Rainero of Grelz the same way he did Kyot. Kyot.
    • Even worse, Unkerlanter veterans who are granted discharge right after the war's end also find themselves imprisoned in the mines, presumably so they cannot spread the news of how much better organized and richer the other kingdoms are.
    • A paranoid megalomaniac, Swemmel finds himself the most powerful man on the continent at the end of the war, and is contemplating starting a new one against his erstwhile allies Lagoas and Kusammo.

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#10319: Nov 18th 2023 at 9:19:41 AM

Please revert it; for the edit reason something like "Complete Monster entries are paragraphs" (or something to that effect; up to you).

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#10320: Nov 18th 2023 at 9:28:07 AM

Welcome back Chaos!

Also any opinions on this?

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#10321: Nov 18th 2023 at 9:30:07 AM

I know nothing about Whatley but Larry T says it comes from one specific chapter

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#10322: Nov 18th 2023 at 10:58:02 AM

So what was the issue with Mr scratch that Alan Wake 2 revealed.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MemeMaster245 The Metal Reaper from Cornfield Since: Apr, 2022 Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
The Metal Reaper
#10323: Nov 18th 2023 at 11:11:16 AM

Actually, disregard my Vecna statement. Apparently, the show isn't coming out publicly until December 14th. Either way, maybe keep an eye out for it anyway.

Prepare for a bitter harvest...
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#10324: Nov 18th 2023 at 11:54:00 AM

Okay on Monster.Dragon Age Corypheus's entry is listed for both Inquisition and the DA2 Legacy DLC, and while he was introduced in Legacy it a MCU Red Skull situation, where he's in Infinity War and Endgame but he's not in the multiple film section since he does nothing of note in Legacy, he spends literally all of it but the Final Boss fight sealed away and having no idea what was happening before attacking Hawke and then body jacking a warden to escape, it's completely generic, especially compared his actions Inquisition.

I didn't say anything before since it didn't really matter, but now that I proposed Erimond who is only in Inquisition so he shouldn't be indented under Legacy, so I think that bit should be removed, though does anyone want to put him in a "Multiple games" section instead? His is indirectly responsible for the Blight, which is the plot of Origins.

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
The Ultimate Lifeform
#10325: Nov 18th 2023 at 11:59:19 AM

[up]That could work since Corephyus has influence in all three games.

[tup] to Erimond BTW!

Edited by ForgoLight on Nov 18th 2023 at 11:59:38 AM

"Us weirdos have to stick together!"

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