Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Cut Vic. Hadn’t seen the 2017 movie, but looking at the page, it does looking like they were going for a genuine Alas, Poor Villain moment.
Unsure on Nic. Cut after reading ![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
.
Edited by Beast on Oct 18th 2023 at 3:24:29 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Not the Eye
Cut Nikolai and Vic
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Barb / Temporary Kylo
Lizzid people!
I'm good with it.
I found this on the page for Tomi Shishido/The Gorgon
- Heel–Face Turn: In X-Men (2019), he is among the hundreds of mutant villains who travel to Krakoa to accept the second chance and new mutant homeland offered by the X-Men. Wolverine even approaches him with a six-pack of beer to bury the hatchet, and while it's not shown whether or not he accepts the offer, later stories would indicate that he did.
If this is true, does that mean his entry on Marvel Comics & X-Men has got to go?
Sorry about the late response but wanted to give my 2 cents on any Afton rewrites. I honestly don't know if Tales From the Pizzaplex is canon to the games (which I'm assuming the rewrite is for) and admit I haven't read any of the FNAF books. However I'd wait on any rewrites or proposing The Mimic until after we get some answers on the latter and Glitchtrap (Help Wanted 2 will probably address this). It's still too ambiguous whether Glitchtrap is a form of The Mimic (they're implied to be connected) or William Afton (for years, he was implied to be Afton's Virtual Ghost) and thus who's responsible for the his actions.
Edited by Idisagree on Oct 18th 2023 at 9:40:31 AM
Lizzid people!
The games make it pretty apparent that the Mimic is Glitchtrap. For instance moments where Glitchtrap mimics the voice of the tape girl in Help Wanted. As for Tales, yeah, they are canon.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
That's fair.
Edited by AustinDR on Oct 18th 2023 at 10:02:51 AM
Barb / Temporary Kylo
I never brought up Glitchtrap. I think that Mimic is indeed Glitchtrap, but am holding out on that sense thread consensus last time was to wait for Help Wanted 2 for tupdating that. I was just requesting that I could add the crimes from William himself that are revealed in the Tales story Dittophobia.
The First man
In that case, I'm fine with adding those crimes to Afton's entry (they sound nasty enough). However I do think Glitchtrap is relevant to this thread and will have to be brought up eventually. Sorry if I got us off-topic a little.
Edited by Idisagree on Oct 18th 2023 at 10:46:45 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Question: Do quotes from Made-for-TV movies go to the Live-Action TV section or the film section? Same question for images.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Barb / Temporary Kylo
Alright trying this...
- William Afton, the man responsible for all the horror in the series, murdered several children, including his best friend's daughter, by dressing up as an Accessory-Wearing Cartoon Animal to gain their trust. Desiring to study fear in children, Afton would begin an experiment where he would use fear gas on kidnapped kids and torment them with machines night after night for years. Afton would then create the Funtimes to capture and kill more children, keeping the sapient machines locked in his facility and regularly tortured. After his death, Afton would haunt the withered Springtrap animatronic, eager to keep killing. Eventually, he would brainwash a woman called Vanessa into murdering children under his name, claiming nine more victims.
Best Smile
I'm not sure what to do about the quotes, but for the images we could probably just give them their own section even if they are few.
Cut Vic.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Are Nicolai and Vic both consensus cuts?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lizzid people!
Think so.
Cut Nico & Vic
Anyone feedback on my post?
Update Afton, cut out Vic and Nikolai (always had doubts about he, it's always unpleasant when the villain is outclassed by the villain in the sequels. Thank God it's rare). Sorry, no opinion.
Sorry, but guys can you have opinions about Dark Koutei and T'Ket? Can we please stop ignoring them and discuss them normally? I am truly tired of constantly asking people and being intrusive about this. I personally don't care if they both stay or not, I'm just asking for a discussion like with Caesar the Clown. It's somewhat sad that some like Vic, Nikolai, Caesar or Monroe get attention, while people like Dark Koutei and T'Ket are simply brushed aside. This is the last reminder, if people don't want to discuss them, okay, so be it. I apologize for disturbing you in vain.
Many thanks to Emperor Georda for discussing T'Ket and Shooting Star 7 X, Dood Slayer 136 and Wat Tambor for their opinions on Dark Koutei. At least someone paid attention to them.
As for Dark Koutei, I found how many episodes and I must say that the series is VERY light-hearted. Like, this is clearly not the right environment for a CM. Unfortunately, I couldn’t find an episode with Dark Koutei and how he punishes his subordinates, but reading his page on the franchise wiki, this is how his punishment of his subordinates is described. ,,Malicious, ruthless and menacing, he does not readily tolerate failure. As a result, he keeps minions who have failed him imprisoned in stone cells that float around space, resembling a cluster of asteroids.” Yes, anyone can edit a wiki, but given that this is more or less what corresponds to the entry. To be honest, in principle, simply imprisoning your minions in cages and floating endlessly through space is unlikely to be very terrible. So cut he out. Having seen the series, it is extremely unlikely that this is portrayed as something truly terrible.
As for T'Ket, honestly cut her out. Regardless of the fact that it was her hatred that led to the war with the Alliance, it does not change the fact that she sincerely wants to avenge her sister's death. There is a big difference between Belos killing his brother for loving a witch and hating his true identity and not caring about Caleb's real interests and bringing entire races to war without realizing that your loved one could die. In the end, it was an accident for her sister and as Emperor Georde noted, just because she was willing to kill her other sister did not mean that she no longer cared about M'Tara. So cut out T'Ket.
Edited by Ghal-Sur on Oct 20th 2023 at 12:34:03 PM
Cut Dark Koutei
If that is correct, cut T'Ket too
Cut T-Ket and Dark Koutei. The former seems to have a blatant redeeming quality. The latter likely fails the general heinous standard. We've also rejected candidates for not being taken seriously enough by the narrative and/or the characters (recently the Fight King from Adventure Time was rejected over tonal issues) and this seems like that.
Cut both, someone can propose Dark Koutei through the proper channels and provide a writeup clarifying why they keep if they dispute the decision.
@ nwot, Not an X-Men expert but I don't see the creator being listed to have written any other Wolverine stories at a glance. Might be a Depending on the Author case.
Edited by 43110 on Oct 20th 2023 at 4:57:15 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
FWIW it also lists this on the Gorgon's page.
- Noble Demon: He's a nihilistic terrorist, but he does have a minimal amount of honor, at least when it comes to a revered figure like Muramasa. When a rogue Hand lieutenant helped the Orphans of X lay siege to Muramasa's forge, Gorgon executed the dissident and then apologized to Muramasa and asked how he could atone for what happened.
- Redemption Equals Death: After abandoning his old ways and joining Krakoa, he dies fighting on its behalf in X of Swords.
- Took a Level in Kindness: Krakoa did wonders for Gorgon's personality, something that is best shown in X of Swords, where he is revealed to have become friends with Magik, and even laughs at one of Wolverine's jokes.
The latter two are tied with the Heel–Face Turn Krakoa stuff so idk?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Didn't Krakoa have all sorts of weirdness? Though OTOH, isn't that where Apocalypse first developed his redeeming qualities? So...I dunno.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
DonPachi has this entry which had been added back in 2019 and modified several times.
- Complete Monster: Colonel Schwarlitz Longhena, debuting in DoDonPachi, organized the Element Dolls' attack on mankind and humanity's near extinction. Thinking humans to be irreparably flawed, Longhena founds the DonPachi, to be conditioned via slaughtering their own comrades, to fight the "invaders". In truth, these invaders are a human fleet trying to stop Longhena's insanity. Gleefully revealing the truth, Longhena attempts to simply wipe out humanity. Granted, you do indeed stop him from killing everyone, however it comes at a high cost.
I doubt it's been approved, though the Big Bad certainly looks nasty enough.
Nicolai's job is basically the guy Pushkin sends when there's problems. He's the gun to sort out the issues. Is he well aware of the human trafficking? Absolutely but he's not directly involved with that aspect.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.