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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#9876: Oct 11th 2023 at 12:53:25 PM

Basically in live action Kuro is nowhere near as bad while Arlong wants to just butcher a village

YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
#9877: Oct 11th 2023 at 1:14:11 PM

Arlong is bad enough in Live Action but definitely isn’t CM because they push the Fishman being persecuted as a motive for him to hard

neckinhalf Since: Dec, 2013
#9878: Oct 11th 2023 at 3:50:54 PM

I'm wondering something regarding Mortal Kombat 1 (2023): can Titan Shang Tsung's (Shang Tsung from the second timeline; just Shang on the long-running MK monster page) entry be expanded to account for what he did in MK 1? There's even more stuff to add to the list. He instigated a multi-universe war out of spite basically.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#9879: Oct 11th 2023 at 3:57:58 PM

Shang's current entry:

  • Shang Tsung works as a Mad Scientist for Shao Kahn, using the "Flesh Pits" to torture and vivisect people in attempts to create Tarkatan clones of Kitana. Later, after Kronika's death and escaping the Void, Shang Tsung deceives the heroes into helping him get her crown, hoping to rewrite all of history to his whims, also having the heroes eliminated while keeping Raiden and Fujin alive to siphon their powers for all eternity, later electing to betray them and steal their souls. Defeating Liu Kang and achieving the powers of a Titan in an Alternate Timeline, Shang Tsung, upon realizing there exists a universe where Liu Kang had won their duel, uses his newfound abilities to try and destroy Liu Kang's New Era timeline, before attempting to conquer the entire multiverse.

neckinhalf Since: Dec, 2013
#9880: Oct 11th 2023 at 4:06:28 PM

My bad. Didn't check the sandbox. Only searched this thread with the site search.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#9881: Oct 11th 2023 at 4:39:47 PM

Yeah, always good to check Sandboxes first. The main pages are only updated every Monday or so.

BillyPeepers92 Since: Jun, 2021
#9882: Oct 11th 2023 at 7:58:40 PM

Cut Ceaser and keep Kerra

Edited by BillyPeepers92 on Oct 11th 2023 at 8:00:02 AM

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#9883: Oct 12th 2023 at 12:59:25 AM

Still leaning a keep on Clown personally.

Bow to the Prototype
DukeNukem4ever Since: Jan, 2017
#9884: Oct 12th 2023 at 5:44:58 AM

The Shang Tsung entry is kinda flawed imho since after mentioning Shang Tsung backstabbing the heroes and keeping Raiden & Fujin alive as Cruel Mercy, the entry doesn't specify who exactly does he betray and kill later.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#9885: Oct 12th 2023 at 6:27:54 AM

I'll just abstain on Caesar Clown for now.

Alright, it's been two weeks, so let's discuss Sonic Frontiers: The Final Horizon, the final DLC update for Sonic Frontiers, featuring a brand new story mode that is surprisingly incredibly challenging compared to the main game. This story is basically an alternate ending for Sonic Frontiers, taking place after Sonic is freed from his Cyber Corruption through his friends transferring back to cyberspace, Sage reveals that she managed to discover a new strategy, in which Sonic regains the same cyber corruption that resulted in his painful state from earlier, but he can control same energy for a new power by undergoing the Trials of the Masters, while also bringing Sonic's friends back from cyberspace to locate the Chaos Emeralds while he does this.

Since this is an alternate story finale, our cm candidate in question is The End, who once again still keeps. The End spends most of the DLC preparing to begin it's genocidal campaign, while also interfering in Sonic's friends's attempts to acquire the Chaos Emeralds, going as far as to briefly lock Tails out of hacking the shields that keep the Emeralds locked up, though Knuckles is able to help Tails out a stop to that. At a certain point in the story, Sonic Friends begin to feel the exact same cyber corruption that Sonic felt, complete with the risk of suffering the same painful fate of being trapped between dimensions, due to The End having them absorb the energy in an attempt to put a stop to their search for the Emeralds, uncaring of the pain that happens to them.

Eventually, Sonic is able to complete the trials, which was easier than done, especially when it came to the Master King Trial, and gains full control over the cyber energy, though the Master King warns him not to go all out with the energy as he'll lose it forever if he does, while Sonic's friends successfully acquire six of the seven Emeralds, with Dr. Eggman acquiring the last one just in time, just like in the base game. With all seven Emeralds, Sonic once again transforms into Super Sonic and faces off against the Supreme Titan, just like he did in the base game, complete with the exact battle too. However, once Sonic beats Supreme, The End ends up taking a much more different approach than it did in the base game, by appearing in it's moon form in the sky and then attaching itself to Supreme, transforming into a a stronger, multi armed abomination, deciding that it will be its avatar for its sadistic campaign of destruction, while also declaring that everyone will perish. It also claims that it alls for order, but as stated in the EP, this is just a bullshit excuse for its sadism, especially since it follows this claim by declaring that all shall return to oblivion.

When The End's new avatar proves to be too strong to defeat, Sonic decides to even the odds by using the cyber energy to transform into Super Sonic 2, which allows Sonic to properly fight The End in a much better and more epic final battle. Sage and Dr. Eggman also assist Sonic during the battle by taking control of Supreme's gun once Sonic disarms The End of it with cyloop. The End responds to this by attempting to kill both Sage and Eggman with a barrage of energy blasts, but Sage creates a shield to protect her surrogate father, but The End proves to be too strong and almost destroys the shield. Fortunately, Sonic's friends arrive to assist her by powering up the shield, allowing to repel the attack. The End will occasionally try to attack them again throughout the boss fight, and will actually succeed in killing them if it hits the shield 3 times. In the end though (Pun not intended), Sonic manages to defeat The End and launches its Avatar into the sky. Eggman then has Sonic go into Supreme's gun to serve as ammunition for the final blow, where Sonic decides to go all out, despite the Master King's earlier warning, transforming into the much more powerful Cyber Sonic, before Eggman fires him at both Supreme and The End, instantly obliterating the former on contact, and blasting right through the latter as he did in the base game. The End attempts to self destruct in one last attempt to destroy everything, just like it did in the base game, but Sonic's cyber form ended weakening it enough for the blast to be non effective as it explodes, destroying it once and for all, this time without Sage being forced to make a Heroic Sacrifice, allowing her to have more happy ending with her surrogate father.

Overall, The End still keeps. While it retains in previous crimes prior to the final island and still plans on committing mass genocide to everything, it doesn't do much in the DLC update, with it's most heinous crimes here being affecting Sonic's friends with cyber corruption, nearly killing Sage, a child, and of course, attempting to self destruct in one last spiteful attempt to destroy everything. Whether or not it'll need a rewrite to include the it affecting Sonic's friends with the pain cyber corruption crime is up to you, but overall, The End is still pretty strong keeper. Also, the new final boss battle it gets was so fucking awesome, and easily one of the best final bosses in the Sonic series.

YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
#9886: Oct 12th 2023 at 7:03:18 AM

Easy agree

And the two remixes of “I’m here” went so hard

crankers Since: Mar, 2014
#9887: Oct 12th 2023 at 7:39:10 AM

Ok, I know that The End is an easy keeper, but I genuinely don't think The End exploding was a Taking You with Me. Everything about it looks like blowing up is just how they die.

Edited by crankers on Oct 12th 2023 at 7:41:14 AM

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#9888: Oct 12th 2023 at 7:45:41 AM

[up] Admittedly I was debating on whether it was either self destructing or it blowing up due to the final blow, but considering it did the exact same thing in the base game after Sonic blasted through it, I pretty much concluded it was probably the self destruct thing. Could be wrong though.

[down] That could be the case. Though I kinda wish the game made that more clear.

Edited by Michealthehero21 on Oct 12th 2023 at 8:06:38 AM

YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
#9889: Oct 12th 2023 at 8:02:18 AM

It’s explosion is different in the base game because Sage had to sacrifice herself that time

Meanwhile in the DLC I would presume it just got completely destroyed given Sonic basically one shot it

[up]Yeah it could have been more clear your right

Edited by YorkobeShounen on Oct 12th 2023 at 10:46:24 AM

MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#9890: Oct 12th 2023 at 3:08:42 PM

This one was added to Future Robot Daltanious illegally. I've pm'd the troper:

  • Emperor Dolmen, who willingly ran all of his allies into the ground and started an endless war based on his own grudge against Helios. Despite being a clone himself, he happily tossed his fellow clones (like Kloppen) into the grinder as long as it benefitted him, and then tried to use his Dark and Troubled Past as a Freudian Excuse to Kento once things weren't in his favour. Dolmen's Dying Declaration of Hate decreed that as long as clones existed, his reign of terror would always exist, but Harlin quelled this by creating anti-discrimination clone laws and being a just ruler.

IPP Wick Check created.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#9891: Oct 12th 2023 at 3:12:06 PM

I doubt that guy counts unless his character page is just wrong. Like Future Robot Daltanious Alien Empires his backstory sounds way too intensely terrible

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#9892: Oct 12th 2023 at 3:12:58 PM

[up][up] Yeah cut it. Dolmen is horrible, but despite his hypocrity story offers him sympathy and makes clear he was utterly warped by his backstory.

Edited by EmperorGeode on Oct 12th 2023 at 3:15:27 AM

Monstrel Mr Since: May, 2023
Mr
#9893: Oct 13th 2023 at 11:48:47 AM

I have some things to add to All For Luz

Edited by Monstrel on Oct 13th 2023 at 11:13:15 AM

Hey guys.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#9894: Oct 13th 2023 at 12:46:54 PM

What, specifically, was added?

Monstrel Mr Since: May, 2023
Mr
#9895: Oct 13th 2023 at 1:33:26 PM

Spoiler warnings and links to other tropes.

Hey guys.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#9896: Oct 13th 2023 at 1:39:37 PM

I'm fine with the spoiler stuff, but too many potholes (the blue links) there.

Monstrel Mr Since: May, 2023
ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
The Ultimate Lifeform
#9898: Oct 14th 2023 at 6:55:23 PM

So I never got a definitive answer on what I should do with the quote from the Female Changeling seen here as I have spoken to others outside this thread and they voiced support for it:

Female Changeling: I needed soldiers to achieve my dreams of Dominion. Enforcers willing to obey without question. Physically the Hur'q were perfect candidates. But their peaceful, free thinking nature was an obstacle. In studying the Hur'q biology, I learned the key to their loyalty.
Doctor Bashir: The Ketracel precursor!
Female Changeling: Yes. I extracted it from their ecosystem. They had no choice. Obey, or die.
Star Trek Online, "Tenebris Torquent"
Additionally, I have six new successful CM candidates, all of whom are from sources I already proposed from, so where should they go in the CM's by trooper section?

Edited by ForgoLight on Oct 14th 2023 at 6:58:36 AM

"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#9899: Oct 14th 2023 at 6:58:03 PM

[up] They go under your username

Also, it didn't seem like people liked the quote

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
The Ultimate Lifeform
#9900: Oct 14th 2023 at 7:00:09 PM

[up]I know that but where under username? And the two who disliked it were in the minority, as the people on the proposal thread liked it.

"Us weirdos have to stick together!"

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