Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Pensive Wright
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Thank you for providing the clip. But the entire meeting is still effectively a deception, and Colm couldn't easily predict how Dutch would react to him saying he didn't like his brother. Yes, he could have just said he accepted Dutch's apology, but he may have figured lying and saying he never liked his brother would put Dutch further at ease. I'm just not sure the particulars of a conversation in which we know the character is being dishonest - at least in the broad strokes - can overshadow what the actual lore and story imply.
Woagh
What even hints Colm is lying?
Edited by Lightysnake on Sep 22nd 2023 at 1:07:20 AM
Barb / Temporary Kylo
I get the concern but it feels a bit ACI-ish for me. And I have to imagine Colm would understand that telling Dutch that killing Annabelle and this whole feud was basically all over nothing would not 'put him at ease'.
Edited by Snoketrope on Sep 22nd 2023 at 1:10:28 AM
The First man
Ultimate Moral Compass
Keep Colm
"No running in the halls!"
Keep Colm, the game clearly shows that he never liked his brother.
Keep. Not seeing the claim he could be lying about not liking his bro.
Keep Colm
We have no reason to assume he is lying
Woagh
So question regarding Gargos from Killer Instinct:
- Complete Monster: Gargos is the worst of all the villains, as he forced previous villains to work together with the heroes to stop this herald of doom. A being who conquers and destroy worlds, generations ago Gargos wiped out a benevolent race called the Astral Beings to conquer the Astral World. Before he could enter the world of the humans, he was forcefully sealed away and trapped in his own dimension. However, being able to establish himself as a god to a group of monks, he created a group of worshipers to a being called the Tiger Spirit, who in actuality was him. Wanting to possess one of the monks to be his vessel, he chose Jago and forcefully mind-controlled him to become the dark warrior Shadow Jago, who then tries to free Gargos along with Gargos's personal servant Omen. When Kan-Ra summoned Gargos out of temptation for power, this gave the opportunity for Gargos to free himself. Now planning to take over the world for his own, Gargos begins his invasion of Earth, hunting any remaining threats such as the amnesiac barbarian Tusk or one of the last remaining Astral Being, the Dragon Spirit. Even his gameplay shows his complete desire for dominance by having a mechanic where punishing his minions that summon him can end up benefiting Gargos. The Shadow Lord is a fitting title for Gargos, the darkest villain in the series.
Alot of this just seems needlessly ramble-y and lengthy, anyone mind if i take a stab at rewriting this?
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Update regarding Alistair Crane
A troper I PM'd, Jade Eyes 1, got back to me and said none of his wives actually died; one faked her death to escape his abuse and the other left with another man. Jade said there's no indication that he wanted to avenge any of his wives and if anything, he wanted revenge on them for escaping him and jeopardizing his empire.
So Alistair's good.
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Sure, why not?
Woagh
Ight, here's my attempt. Reading up the writeup glosses over that the Astral Beings he kills were his own kind, so i thought that'd be important to note:
- Gargos is a cruel warlord who regularly destroys planets for power, having previously conquered his home world, The Astral Realm, by slaughtering his own people. Sealed in The Astral Realm after attempting to destroy Earth, something he attempted many times before, he impersonated a deity worshiped by a group of monks so he can manipulate them into unleashing him, corrupting the well-meaning Jago into Shadow Jago in the process. Eventually released by Kan-Ra in a bid for power, Gargos uses this to have his forces invade Earth, ultimately planning on consuming Earth to satisfy his lust for power.
We good?
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Sep 22nd 2023 at 6:39:47 AM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Looks much better, dood. Likewise I'm a keep for Isaac, pretending to love someone has never been disqualifying unless they Become The Mask.
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Yeah, looks pretty good. When do we usually swap the re-writes?
Keep Colm. The argument to cut him sounds more like Alternative Character Interpretation.
Just to ask since I just saw Morte being disqualified (that I just saw right now that is even if that's 2 weeks ago), but how high is SAO's heinous standard really? Granted that I don't know a lot about the franchise but it doesn't sound too complex, but the keepers sound less like light novel villains than Criminal Minds villains.
Edited by Mr-ex777 on Sep 24th 2023 at 3:57:38 AM
Goku Black
Alright I'll add this to the drafts.
- The "Farmworld" incarnation of the Lich is an alternate version that possessed the body of an alternate version of Jake the Dog.The Lich manipulates his world's version of a grief stricken Finn to gain access to the multiverse, planning to slaughter the denizens of every reality, over and over again. Planning to make a 'mountain of broken bodies' from his victims'. Escaping into the world of Ooo, the Lich mentally tortures Sweet P for nights on end to try and turn him back into the original Lich. After his final death, he resurfaces in Adventure Time: Distant Lands, where Farmworld Lich manipulates New Death into killing his father and uses him as a puppet to annihilate the cycle of reincarnation, stopping new life from blooming.
If it’s alright with everyone, I’d like to reserve Hilda season 3 for discussion.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
there’s a season three? Sure go ahead
Moderately high. Basically need a bodycount in at least the hundreds, or a really nasty niche.
XaXa and Johnny Black are just getting by through a tame combination of both the above, along with low resources.
Edited by Snowy66 on Sep 23rd 2023 at 8:22:20 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Dood: Please add the rewrite to the Drafts.
Siegfried: They get swapped with the new writeups; I make the request around Monday morning my time.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Just flagging a page name change for a couple of existing entries that you might already be aware of.
Characters.Creatures Of Grimm needs to be changed to Characters.RWBY Grimm Bestiary in the following examples:
- Monster.RWBY: "The Two Brothers" example from the RWBY: Fairy Tales of Remnant section.
- Monster.RWBY Fan Works: "Void" from the "Ruby and Nora" series.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Thank you.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 24th 2023 at 7:39:57 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Got it. They'll be swapped.
What's the consensus on Duxton?
Edited by ACW on Sep 23rd 2023 at 3:41:25 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
So far 11 people have said cut and Godzillawolf barely remembers anything about the movie.
Brought this up before but it never gained traction so I'm going to emphatically suggest we cut this character and hold on until we get a resolution.
From Horatio Hornblower:
- "The Even Chance": Midshipman Jack Simpson ruthlessly torments his fellow midshipmen, both physically and psychologically. He is a sadistic bully who takes great pleasure in his evil games. He claims that he knows the guys' secrets and what gnaws their souls, and uses it as blackmail. He keeps beating them mercilessly. His abuse of Archie Kennedy is the worst as he is the one most terrified of him, and Simpson's mere presence gives him stress-induced Convulsive Seizures. Simpson is able to manipulate the situation and is never held responsible, and the others are punished instead. Later he tries to kill his shipmates in the middle of a raid by setting one adrift in a boat and shooting the other. When challenged to the Duel to the Death, he cheats and claims it was a misfire. Finally, when his life is spared, he's unable to deal with Cruel Mercy and tries to stab his opponent In the Back.
The other CM is executing peasants left, right and centre in protest against the uprising towards the upper class. Even accounting for resources, a nasty personality, even if he's treated as a personal adversary to the hero, isn't gonna push this guy above. Simpson's going and I'd like to hear actual counters if we don't wanna move on cutting him.
I confess I'm not quite sure why we should disregard Colm laughing at the death of his brother and saying he never liked him?