Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Abstaining on Issac until someone who has played the game can confirm this.
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
I actually see it as dicer. Until the moment where he's done counting down he sounds cold and commanding. The only bit I think is genuinely worth discussing is the grimace he gets before preparing to pull the trigger and with such a brief moment I see it as harder to tell if he A) was going to have a lasting moral impact B) is upset at having to kill a skilled soldier in his forces or C) was going to get over it in a moment. He's killed right there, so it's hard to say.
How does he interact with Abby otherwise?
RIP Toriyama
Yeah I've seen the full game and I think he's fine, he hesitates cuz he has an amicable professional relationship with her yeah but he explicitly steels himself and moves to shoot her with a look of coldness right before he's killed. It seems like a pretty clear example of him making a conscious choice to decide to kill her with a look of resolve just because of prejudice against a child he wants to murder lol.
Edited by Ravok on Sep 20th 2023 at 1:56:31 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
This is the other appearance of him, what do you think?
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Based on what Ravok said, may edge keep for Isaac Dixon.
IPP Wick Check created.
I think I'm fine with Isaac. Lighty's EP even noted how surface level his pretend care for his troops is shown as.
I've seen the game's cutscenes, and what Ravok said was completely accurate. Keep Isaac.
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Keep Issac, with all the given information in mind.
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
Btw on that note ACW, if you wanted it for his writeup her proper name's 'Abigail "Abby" Anderson'.
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Sorry to ask, but was there discussion about Takeda Kanryu?
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
It was about what pothole to add to his film version.
IPP Wick Check created.
A question about Bakemonogatari.
I don't know anything about the Monogatari franchise (and is thus unable to provide an EP even if I want to), but is there any reason why Sengoku Nadeko can't count if the trope page was anything to go by? Unless if the whole thing is weaseled or she's just not bad enough by the standards of the series.
Already searched her name and nothing came out by the way.
Edited by Mr-ex777 on Sep 21st 2023 at 12:17:22 AM
Lizzid people!
Namely sounds like she's severely mentally ill.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Quick question; I know I’m not allowed to propose characters from my own work but if someone else makes a effort post for my work, am I allowed to vote on it?
Edited by LarryT on Sep 21st 2023 at 4:51:10 AM
In honor of Akira Toriyama
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
I do not recall anyone having a right to vote on their own work here.
IPP Wick Check created.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
So I was asked to chime in on Duxton being cut. And I'm going to be honest: I haven't seen the movie in years and no longer have access to it.
I believe the original reason he was agreed to because he's a Vile Villain Sacchrine Show and his crimes themselves are played dead seriously, and everyone does treat his plans as suitably monstrous.
But to be honest, that's all I can really say because I haven't seen the movie in years and barely remember it.
Sorry I can't be of much help here.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Alright, thanks 
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Noticed that; already took care of it ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Pensive Wright
We've approved various candidates (Sentinel Prime springs to mind) with apparent displays of redeeming qualities on the grounds that, in context, their words can be dismissed as lies or their actions as pragmatic. Colm O'Driscol from Red Dead Redemption 2 may be the opposite case, where context suggests his apparent lack of redeeming qualities was a deception.
It's key to the backstory that his gang and Dutch Van Der Linde's gang have been warring with eachother for years since Colm killed Dutch's lover Anabelle after Dutch killed Colm's brother. But we decided that Colm didn't really love his brother because he casually tells Dutch he never really liked his brother. However, he says this to Dutch while the two are meeting under a flag of truce, ostensibly to negotiate an end their feud. However, the meeting turns out to be a ruse; Colm has Arthur ambushed and tries to kill Dutch again, never having intended to make peace with him. Thus, Colm's words while trying to appear non-threatening to Dutch and make peace seem more likely can't be taken as serious insight into Colm's character. So that just leaves us with a villain who has been in a long-standing war with another character, which began when that character killed the villain's brother, and the villain's first follow-up move was to kill one of the other's character's loved ones, despite them being a non-combatant; the obvious implication is that the villain loved their brother. Of course, going to war over someone's death isn't conclusive proof that a character cared for that person; we don't know much about Colm's brother's role in the gang or the circumstances behind Anabelle's death; it's possible Dutch killing Colm's brother simply made Colm see the Van Der Linde gang as a threat and simply didn't care about the distinction between combatants and non-combatants when he retaliated. However, key to Colm's character and understanding the O'Drisscol gang as a faction is that Colm doesn't care about most members of his gang; he recruits them en-masse, rarely even learning their names, and uses them as canon fodder. So the fact that Dutch killing his brother did provoke an act of retaliation from Colm, which escalated into a massive feud, implies that Colm did see his brother as more than an asset who Dutch removed.
Unless anyone had a strong counterpoint, or knows something about the lore I don't I say we cut Colm.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
I just watched the clip and I do not see signs of him saying he never liked his brother being a 'deception', this happens right after Dutch says he is sorry. To 'appear non-threatening' all Colm would have to do is say he accepted the apology. And what he does say just pisses off Dutch more, as Dutch replies 'I. Liked. Annabel'.
Goku Black
Anyone mind a bit of a cleanup for farmworld lich. His entry read weirdly.
- The "Farmworld" incarnation of the Lich is an alternate version that possessed the body of an alternate version of Jake the Dog who manipulated that world's version of Finn to gain access to the multiverse and build up a mountain of broken bodies, later mentally torturing Sweet P for nights on end to try and turn him back into the original Lich. In Distant Lands, Farmworld Lich manipulates New Death into killing his father and uses him as a puppet to annihilate the cycle of reincarnation, stopping new life from blooming.
Rewrite
- The "Farmworld" incarnation of the Lich is an alternate version that possessed the body of an alternate version of Jake the Dog. The Lich manipulates his world's version of a grief stricken Finn to gain access to the multiverse and wipe out all life by using a mountain of broken bodies. Escaping into the world of Ooo, the Lich mentally tortures Sweet P for nights on end to try and turn him back into the original Lich. After his final death, he resurfaces in Distant Lands, where Farmworld Lich manipulates New Death into killing his father and uses him as a puppet to annihilate the cycle of reincarnation, stopping new life from blooming.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
Looks mostly good, but I still think it makes it sound like he is going to use the mountain of broken bodies to kill people instead of just that being his plan for once he has killed them. How about "The Lich manipulates his world's version of a grief stricken Finn to gain access to the multiverse, planning to slaughter the denizens of every reality, over and over again. Planning to make a 'mountain of broken bodies' from his victims'.
Edited by Snoketrope on Sep 22nd 2023 at 12:23:41 PM
The First man
cut Duxton
EDIT: Switching to a weak keep based on the other arguments.
Edited by WatTambor on Sep 20th 2023 at 12:19:53 PM