Complete Monster Cleanup

Yeah, Rick is a vicious sadist who delights in torturing people and seeing them give into their worst impulses. That Caleb and his uncle are benevolent paint Rick in an even worse light

By the way The Patriot (1998) now has a page. I swear Floyd Chisholm from it is listed. But I can't find his entry. I know lighty did him.

There's a CM entry for a different Patriot movie

Yeah that's the weird thing. I know this ep happened. As the weirdness of the virus plot is Memorable. But can't find the write up.

I absolutely did one

Spotted on Dungeons & Dragons for Takhisis's entry under Dragonlance: Dragons of Autumn Twilight it potholes Goddess of darkness as God of Evil when God of Darkness would be better

Good point. Done.

Okay, I can't find the writeup, but after a search I found the EP (Floyd's last name was missing the second H): Here.

Edited by ACW on Aug 14th 2023 at 6:59:59 AM

Hello everyone, don't mind me, just came to vote for quotes.

I vote to firmly leave the quote to Lucia and Bandos, they are both beautiful.

Cut quotes Embryo, Sir John Dee, Otto Alric, Mannimarco Grim.

Honestly keep Strange's quote. His words "What it's like, Wayne, standing on the very rocks that your parents' blood ran on" and "looking forward to breaking you" are incredibly vile and perfectly capture his sadistic and monstrous nature.

Keep Albert Contiell's quote, even without context, think it's good. The quote emphasizes that Albert kills people out of greed, which is perhaps his most vile trait. This and that, “you took it all from those people” and “you are a killer”, I think it’s easy to guess what we are talking about organs. In general, think even without context, the quote is good.

Honestly, after thinking about it, keep the quote for De Faye. Adewale explains why the Marquis is terrible and admits that despite being a cold-blooded killer himself, even he is horrified by the Marquis' atrocities. I think the quote is just great and demonstrates the evil that distinguishes CM from other villains.

Keep both quotes for Mark Jefferson. Even if they do not talk about his crimes, they perfectly explain his personality as a vile and sick psycho. Personally, I don't think all quotes need to be about CM activities. The quote for Drago Bludvist, which is considered good by many, is also only about his personality, without going into why he is "crazy".

The quote for Mobius D is better transferred to the quotes "Sadist".

Keep the Lazarevic quote for the reasons mentioned by The Libing Drawing (simply agree) and keep the Deathshead quote. As in the case of the Marquis de Faue, the fact that Blazkowicz is horrified by the brutality of his nemesis, despite the fact that, in his own words, "I saw the suffering and death of crippled and tortured people" I think perfectly conveys horror.

After thinking, weakly hold Comstock's quote. The fact that at the end of the quote he talks about the instructiveness of cruelty, think it conveys well his insane cruelty.

Keep Calder's quote, either leave it as it is or leave Will's words. Keep the Sorceress quote shortened as suggested by The Living Drawing and keep the Queen Malory quote leaving the leading line.

As for other quotes, will refrain, they all have their own attractiveness, but I am not familiar with the works and therefore cannot decide.

Well dang. Anyone want to do a write up.

I'd still like some feedback on the Ewell quote. It got two votes and no downvotes so I'll add it to the drafts page if there are no objections.

Edited by Javertshark13 on Aug 14th 2023 at 9:42:31 AM

I'm okay with it.

Quick amendment I'd like to make to my own entry on Urien Rakarth, adding to the end of the last sentence "...and is known to have demanded so many victims for his experiments that he forces Archons to go to war and take entire sectors prisoner just to ensure he never runs out of bodies."

Current entry:

• Urien Rakarth is the Master Haemonculus of the Prophets of Flesh. An eons-old experimenter, Rakarth has spent millennia cutting apart countless victims and restitching them into mindless, pain-stricken monstrosities as attack dogs or attractions for his Carnivals of Pain: spectacles put on for high-ranking Drukhari to behold slaves being devoured, payment for attendance of which frequently involves Rakarth demanding pieces of the viewers' minds or bodies. Spreading his depravity, Rakarth teaches his twisted followers with pride, and even educated Fabius Bile himself in the ways of torturous experimentation.

Especially with the likes of his own pupil Bile running around I think the bulk of victims Rakarth has taken should be emphasized.

Edit: His title is also "the Sculpter of Torments", which I think ACW had and at the time I'd felt was unnecessary but most of the others seem to get theirs input so I'm fine to have that back as well.

Edited by 43110 on Aug 14th 2023 at 11:12:56 AM

Last year, Dr Bob Frankland from the TV series Sherlock was bestowed with the title of 'Complete Monster' by this committee (link to the proposal). I intend to challenge this decision. Having watched the show, I believe that Frankland does not qualify as a Complete Monster for the following reason:

During the episode 'The Hounds of Baskerville', Sherlock and John visit the nearby Baskerville Military Base. Sherlock gains access using an ID card taken from his brother Mycroft Holmes. When their credentials finally cause a security alert, Dr Frankland lies to the military personnel and vouches for Sherlock's cover as Mycroft, despite knowing Sherlock's real identity. Frankland safely escorted Sherlock and Watson outside the Baskerville military base and intimated them that he is a fan of John Watson's blog.

Despite being fully capable of exposing their true identities, Frankland prevented the pair's cover from being blown purely out of genuine respect and admiration for Sherlock and not because of any ostensible ulterior motive (Villain Respect). When Sherlock asks what he does at Baskerville, Bob replies by saying " I'd love to tell you, but then of course I'd have to kill you". This seems like a case of Don't Make Me Destroy You to me and this exchange implies that he views Sherlock as a Worthy Opponent.

And that's not even considering the fact that he personally kills only one person, who seeks to blow the whistle on him, on-screen for pragmatic reasons. Things get complicated because we don't see Frankland experimenting on any subjects on-screen after project H.O.U.N.D is shut down either, though Henry and the heroes accompanying him get affected by the hallucinogen in Dewer's Hollow.

Bearing these arguments in mind, I urge this board to reconsider their decision to categorise Dr Bob Frankland as a Complete Monster.

Edited by bucolicreader on Aug 15th 2023 at 2:09:40 AM

BTW, I added Chisholm's writeup to the pending page.

EDIT: 43's expansion works. And we can just add "aka the Sculpter of Torments..." after his name.

Frankland...hmm, that seems like it could be an issue.

Edited by ACW on Aug 15th 2023 at 8:41:38 AM

I don’t think so, that sounds like a pretend chummy, Faux Affably Evil moment undercut by the horrible experiments he’s done and doesn’t he later try and fight and kill the heroes? I’m really not hearing the depth you’re finding in those lines.

For heinousness that’s no problem, there’s enough emphasis on his past from the effort post and enough weight given to his attempts to keep using his hallucinogen. We measure what’s tried, not just what’s successful. I don’t see how he fails the standard.

A villain having respect doesn't necessarily translate to genuine care. Many versions of Joker respect Batman, but are still pure evil in every other regard.

Plus him admitting to his willingness to kill Sherlock kinda mitigates it.

And 43 is right, there's ample evidence of his crimes over the years to establish a pattern. Serial Mind Rape is enough to cross the Heinous Standard.

Edited by Snowy66 on Aug 15th 2023 at 6:31:13 AM

You make a good point. After going through the transcript of the episode, I have realised that Frankland's intervention to save Sherlock and John from being found out wasn't a case of Villain Respect at all. After seeing Holmes at the facility, he immediately realises that Henry Knight has hired him to investigate the cause of his father's death. Cognisant of the fact that the military members would probably allow Holmes and Watson to continue the investigation even after learning their true identities, especially with a good friend like inspector Lestrade backing them up, he decides to step in and take the two aside and tells them that Henry's father had "mad theories" about the place, with the implication that he passed these theories on to his son who has also gone 'mad', to discredit Henry's contrived claims about the hound and dissuade them from pursuing the case. He then gives them his number, presumably to keep tabs on them so that he can take them out when the opportunity presents itself. He does after all, show up at the restaurant to thwart Watson's plan to get information about Henry from Mortimer and redirects suspicion towards his colleague Stapleton.

Later, he shows up at the Hollow, probably to kill the heroes after disorienting them with his aerosol drug. I agree that he doesn't fail the heinousness standard. He does a lot of evil deeds for an everyday scientist. After some contemplation, I have changed my stance. I think we can keep him.

Edited by bucolicreader on Aug 15th 2023 at 7:07:57 AM

Well, I unfortunately have a cut of my own to suggest. From ER of all things:

• Steve Curtis is the ex-boyfriend of Nurse Samantha Taggart, and the father of her son, Alex. An unreliable deadbeat, Steve nevertheless becomes obsessed with re-inserting himself into Sam and Alex's lives, and after being arrested for armed robbery, he concocts an escape plan with another prisoner named Rafe Hendricks, and an EMT named Mary. Steve and Rafe fake a fight that gets them brought to Cook County, where they grab Sam after being freed by Mary. When the getaway goes awry, Steve and Rafe shoot up the hospital, injuring and possibly killing numerous people, before taking off with Sam and a kidnapped Alex. On the way to Canada, Steve guns down Rafe and Mary. Afterward, Steve implies that he is willing to kill Sam, Alex, and himself rather than see them all be separated again, right before he rapes Sam.

I couldn't find an EP on him - using the search only brought up a 2013 proposal from HT and it seemed like he got involved in a rewrite in 2020, but I didn't see any in-depth proposal, and ultimately I think the writeup exaggerates things a bit to much to get him up.

• The big thing is the shootout - it's heinous enough in theory (he and his partner start shooting in every direction in the ER lobby), but the issue is that it doesn't translate to practice. Despite all the bullets, only about four people end up shot, and Jerry is the only one that ever seems to be on the verge of death (even the cop that's shot in the neck gets an offhand "you'll be fine" to indicate that he's gong to survive). Jerry codes a couple times before pulling through and Abby ends up needing an emergency c-section and hysterectomy, but overall no one ends up dying - one of the victim even just has a cut in the leg and specifically refuses treatment because he doesn't need it. I could take this in a vacuum, but ER's heinous standard is nothing to sneeze at, especially with fellow CM Derek in play (who similarly goes on a shooting spree but specifically puts more people in critical condition, including deliberately targeting a large number of children), plus his own compatriots going out of their way to put more people in danger (Mary paralyzes Luca with medicine that makes him incapable of breathing on his own, while Rafe aids in the shootout and later runs a cop off the road in a bad crash that even Steve thought was the wrong way to go)
• While they're at the hospital, Steve agrees to let Sam intubate Luca when his life is put in danger with no apparent ulterior motive. Now, his claim that "they're not murderers" does go out the window when he shoots up the lobby, but this moment is one that never gets subverted - he forgoes a quick escape so that Sam can save the doctor's life, and she even has to try multiple times before she gets it right. It's Rafe who's ready to go from the first minute and jeopardizes Luca's life in the process, and it was Mary who paralyzed him in the first place.
• I am 100% able to throw off any potential care for his family as self-serving, but I can't really agree with the writeup's claim that Steve is willing to kill all three of them instead of have them be separated. He has a long self-serving monologue about how he never should've let them be separated and swearing that that will never happen again, and then he offhandedly concludes it with "I'd rather we be dead". Maybe I'm just not the best at picking up subtext, but that doesn't really sound like a threat to kill all of them to me in context - he says it so offhand that it's hard for me to call it a straight up threat.

Overall, he's got a shootout that doesn't threaten a huge amount of people, raping his ex-wife, and a vague claim about rather being dead than being separated again. In a vacuum I'd be fine, but with ER's standard, I'm not as sure. What do we think?

Seems like a cut.

How bad is ER's heinous standard?

I created an image thread for Call of Duty page image. Just putting it up here so people could vote, if they want.

I know that proposing someone as an CM who has already been proposed is not allowed, but after watching the work in question again, there is some important info that I looked over. Would I be able to propose them again with this new info in mind?

You are allowed to propose someone whose been shot down before, just make sure to address why they were rejected

Ok, thanks!

ER has a surprisingly high standard for a medical procedural. Offhand, besides the other three CMs themselves (who are a Spree Killer, a Serial Rapist, and a serial killing rapist), I know there's at least one episode where a long gunman takes a fair amount of the main cast hostage to try to save his wife, there's a duo who kidnap and threaten to kill one of the doctors to operate on a friend with a gunshot, there's the infamous schizophrenic who stabs two of the doctors (killing one of them, Lucy) and while it has been a long time since I've seen this part of the show, my memory says that the arc that takes place in Africa has an actual warlord terrorizing people, so for a medical procedural the main cast finds themselves in peril a lot. The only thing that lets Steve stand out in my mind is the mass gunfire in the lobby - it does admittedly put a lot of people in danger, but like I said, no one seems to actually die from that, and there's only one serious injury that we know of.

Plus, the moment with Luca concerns me too. His partner is eager to leave but Steve specifically nixes the plan to leave right away so that Sam can save him because "we're not murderers". Again, he subverts the line when he shoots up the lobby, but he doesn't subvert the actual moment where he lets Sam save someone at the cost of his easy escape.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Aug 15th 2023 at 4:35:42 AM