Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
I think I was against her inclusion when she was originally brought up and I still think she isn't bad enough.
Cut Tommy, Michael, Pamela and Mahrkagir
Keep Vilu Deskar.
Edited by G-Editor on Aug 3rd 2023 at 8:01:40 AM
Goku Black
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Like the thing with me is evil spirit Hitler's mo to intentionally set off racial violence and murder is much worse than this and he's the only other explicitly magical dude on this tree.
Ninja Gamer Writer
According to what is on the discussion dates page, I need to announce my intent to reserve certain media on this forum before adding my reservation. Thus, I actually plan to look over Emmy the Robot once that story deepens (it is ongoing). I would also like to put a reservation down on Spider-Man: Beyond the Spiderverse if that is doable... or do I have to wait for a release date for that one? I also wanted to reserve a game called Cookie Cutter, but that one doesn't even have a page yet.
You need to wait until a month before release before you can reserve a work, so if it doesn't have a set date yet you can't reserve it
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Caesar
Yeah, as said above, a work has to be within a month of release to be reserved, and Beyond doesn't even have a release date yet, so that's not able to be grabbed.
I'll say cut to Pamela.
Edited by Ravok on Aug 3rd 2023 at 4:47:57 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Ninja Gamer Writer
Thanks for telling me. In that case, I'll just reserve Emmy since that is a work that has been released but is ongoing.
Yeah, Pamela I'm fine cutting. There's a lack of a visceral oomph to her, even as a serial killer in a setting this bad
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
While we are on this topic I do also have someone who I have a question with:
- Commissar Vassiloff is a cruel assassin whose job is to hunt down and kill defectors from the Soviet Union. With his latest target, Major Ivan Kuchenko, in sniper range, Vassiloff refuses to have him merely shot. Instead, Vassiloff decides to give Kuchenko "the death of an artist". To that end, Vassiloff forces Kuchenko into a trap where he must find and defuse a bomb hidden in his hotel room under a 3-hour time limit. Vassiloff delights in watching his victim suffer a nervous breakdown as time runs out, and continues to leave him alive even as he pleads, screaming, to be shot. With a Complexity Addiction that defies all logic, Vassiloff cements himself as one of the most sadistic characters on the show, claiming to have killed 800 people in similar ways purely to satisfy his boredom.
Frankly, I haven’t seen the episode but this kinda gives me some pause as he simply brags about the amount of people he killed. Is there anyone who wants to like, elaborate on this?
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Goku Black
EP is in the edit reason on the recap ymmb. Honestly fine with this one. Considering the whole episode is his mo and uh the over the top nature of it.
[[quoteblock]] Frankly, I haven’t seen the episode but this kinda gives me some pause as he simply brags about the amount of people he killed [[/quoteblock]
Uh so? If it's what the episode indicates he has. It what he has. Ethan roarke has like the same thing
Edited by miraculous on Aug 3rd 2023 at 5:42:21 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
Tht’ fair. I was more kinda worried on the nature of it because just simply bragging about a high body count doesn’t really…sound bad esp for Twilight Zone but if the whole episode shows off what he’s capable of than I have no complaints
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
True dat
Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Aug 3rd 2023 at 8:45:07 AM
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Goku Black
Tbf it's a 50's show. Theres only so much you can show in an episode.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
But isn't the indication Pamela's been doing her act for thousands of years, which would imply many victims?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Yeah. Imply. Which is kind of my issue when everyone has a confined amount. (and also why I agree with dowvltong that mighty max guy and he actually killed a kid. Weirdly their even both pharaohs huh)
And did it over a couple of years. Like Ramos and lutze excedd her and aren't thousnd year old villains.
Edited by miraculous on Aug 3rd 2023 at 6:03:28 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Showtime!
Cut Pamela
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
An Eldritch Troper
Cut Blood Spider, Mahrkagir, Tommy and Pamela.
Keep Vilu.
Since we decided to keep Radwan, should we rewrite his entry? It looks like it needs reworking to remove extraneous details and include the detail of trying to get another girl killed.
Rewrite works.
Edited by Draxterrus on Aug 4th 2023 at 8:56:26 PM
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
Bye
Cut Pamela
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
That's a fair point.
Cut Blood Spider, Mahrkagir and Pamela
How about this rewrite?
- Tomasz Radwan is a teenager fascinated with American serial killers and what it would be like to see someone die. After failing to persuade a friend to murder said friend's little sister, Radwan instead kidnaps another girl, the 9-year-old Aleksandra Kaliciak, imprisoning and brutally torturing her for an entire day. The next day, Radwan first chokes her before throwing her into a river where the young girl drowns. Upon his trial, Radwan shows absolutely no remorse, with the judge claiming to find it difficult to even call him human.
Edited by WatTambor on Aug 4th 2023 at 11:49:03 AM
- The unnamed mill owner profits on the suffering of those he forces to work for poverty-level wages in his brutal textile mill while he and his wife lavish, exploiting in particular brutal child labor and working all of his employees to the point of starvation and disease. When his workers go on strike, the mill owner waits them out until they've been starved to a point where they're forced to return to work, and, after failing to convince the family of one child to hand him over their child Alice for his wife's pleasure, sees her worked to death in his factory. An early example of a film CM, the mill owner was and is a poignant reminder of the very real evils of child labor.
That bit at the end I bolded, is it really necessary, especially with it directly calling him a CM, I've never seen an entry actually say "CM" in it before
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Radwan rewrite works.
The original was this:
- The unnamed mill owner profits on the suffering of those he forces to work for poverty-level wages in his brutal textile mill while he and his wife lavish, exploiting in particular brutal child labor and working all of his employees to the point of starvation and disease. When his workers go on strike, the mill owner waits them out until they've been starved to a point where they're forced to return to work, and, after failing to convince the family of one child to hand him over their child Alice for his wife's pleasure, sees her worked to death in his factory. An early example of a Complete Monster in film, the mill owner was and is a poignant reminder of the very real evils of child labor.
FWIW I'm fine with this variant rather than the CM one, makes it seem more formal.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.I think the last sentence should just go entirely, or at least be reworded since it's not kosher to have trope entries pothole the trope itself in there
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Got another Cut, from one of my older candidates; Malcolm Danvers ofBitten.
- Seasons 1-2: Malcolm Danvers is a power-hungry werewolf and Jeremy's abusive father. When Jeremy became alpha, Malcolm left the pack, and reemerged after his assumed death, as the orchestrator behind the mutt uprising, using Daniel Santos to recruit psychopaths, killers, and rapists to destroy his son's pack, resulting in the murders of several innocent people and Jeremy's pack members. Malcolm also stalks Elena; he has Victor Olson, who molested her as a child, turned and having him show up at an art gallery to torment her. Malcolm shrugs off the deaths of his army; confronts Jeremy about his intentions on continuing their war, taking Elena for himself; kills her boyfriend, leaving his head for her to find; and kidnaps Logan's pregnant girlfriend Rachel. Malcolm claims his reasoning for the latter is to punish Elena for wanting to have a human life. Finding himself stalked by Aleister, Malcolm goes on the run, leaving his followers to die, and killing an old man who gave him a ride. It's also revealed that Malcolm tried to kill Clayton as a child, being the werewolf who bit him, and killed Clayton's mother that same night, resulting in his father committing suicide.
So, while all of this is 100% true, and Malcom otherwise has no redeeming qualities...his literal last word to Elena is to tell her to run when he see's Aleister behind her. There is a bit to unpack here, but Alister's plan involves using the strongest werewolf - who at the time, was Malcolm - for The Undoing, a plot that would undo every curse casted by a witch, which includes the curse of lycanthropy. When Elena kills Malcolm in their fight, now she is seen as the strongest werewolf.
Now when I EP'd him, my argument was that Malcolm telling Elena was hollow since he was literally trying to kill her moments before, previously killed her boyfriend to punish her for wanting to live a human life and such...
But looking back, no matter how hollow and OOC it is for him to genuinely be concerned for her, he still says "Run" when he realized that Aliester was coming for her now. No vindictive smirk, not last taunts, he just gasps out the word "Run".
Edited by Beast on Aug 5th 2023 at 9:32:01 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So The Mahrkhagir and that dude from the Spidey novel are consensus cuts, right?
Also seems like a cut.
Edited by ACW on Aug 4th 2023 at 11:16:38 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lol. But yeah revert.
Actually we'll here. Can I bring something up from The Twlight Zone
So uh this sounds bad but like the issue is I know we rejected a bad guy from Mighty max who had a similar mo of life drinking since it was vague how many victims they had compared to the other bad guys of the show who has way more confirmed.
The others listed are
I dunno. Other than Hitler. This is the only villain on the tree with Actual magical abilities. And uh....
Edited by miraculous on Aug 3rd 2023 at 3:57:13 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."