Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Keep Grimsrud
Cut Desghidorah and James
For the kind of movie Fargo is, Grimsrud is actually more than bad enough. Keep him.
Also I might be planning another cut proposal soon if it's alright. I just need to check a couple things.
EDIT: Actually before that, I am really, really doubting the qualifications of both The Legendary Starfy candidates.
Edited by Mediamagician on Jul 28th 2023 at 5:04:18 AM
An Eldritch Troper
At Monster: Warcraft, can we suggest another header to replace "Tabletop Game"?
Besides Evil & Mashtooth, I think we have to cut Ogura from the Starfy manga too, since his entry doesn't mention him doing anything to pass baseline heinousness (tries to kill Starfy, brainwashes his mom to fight him & potential Fridge Horror with the forest fire and landmines part).
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I knew it was Fridge Horror. What about Evil and manga!Ogura?
Thanks.
Edited by Draxterrus on Jul 29th 2023 at 12:16:59 AM
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
Yeah, pretty much. I am not exaggerating at all when I say that ALL of Mashtooth's villainy in his entry is fridge horror. Him "draining life force"? It's their strength, not life force. He just makes Bunnerans tired, he doesn't kill them. Him eating the prince? It's not given any weight at all that it's any kind of fate worse than death. Him using the moon as a battering ram? Note how the entry itself says that it "possibly will kill hundreds of thousands of innocents." Mashtooth is in the sky battling Starfy, there is no way the moon would've killed anyone else, and there's no weight or discussion or anything that it would.
Edited by Mediamagician on Jul 28th 2023 at 9:10:49 AM
The Moron
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I realized what work I was actually dealing with there and just changed it to "Franchise-Wide"
@Draxterrus The problem there is as far as I can tell both Evil and Manga Ogura were approved from a Japanese only game and a Japanese only manga respectively, with few to no available English translations and I don't speak Japanese. However, given how I am pretty sure that the person who did Mashtooth's proposal is the same person who did the other two, and how all of the information in Mashtooth's entry is, to be blunt, flat out inaccurate at best, it's probably safe just to cut them all. From what I WAS able to find, the possibility of fridge horror being an issue for the other two is too likely.
Edited by Mediamagician on Jul 28th 2023 at 9:22:37 AM
Oh, are we relitigating the villains from The Legendary Starfy? Cut them all. Manga!Ogura included. I have experience with the games and they're all utterly generic; that tidbit in Mashtooth's entry about trying to kill "hundreds of thousands" is pure, unsubstantiated Fridge Horror.
@Scraggle It even says "possibly will kill". That seems to be a recurring theme with a lot of entries with fridge horror.
The Ultimate Lifeform
Wow you sure? I swear I remember seeing someone play Starfy a while back and they were fighting Evil/Iburu and the villain attempted to destroy Starfy's home planet... Or... Is it a Doomsday situation?
Edited by ForgoLight on Jul 28th 2023 at 9:38:44 AM
"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
Woagh
Chop the Starfy dudes.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Insofar as I recall Evil only talks about taking over the universe, not eradicating it outright.
The Ultimate Lifeform
Okay. I'm probably remembering things wrong. It was a long time ago that I saw this. I think I was still in elementary school.
Edited by ForgoLight on Jul 28th 2023 at 9:46:56 AM
"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
@Forgolight Yeah, the bit there probably has to do with Evil's attempt at defeating Starfy with a giant green ball, which happens during the boss fight and has nothing to do with destroying the universe or Starfy's planet. Fridge horror.
Edited by Mediamagician on Jul 28th 2023 at 9:47:48 AM
Scrap them all. Starfy also looks too silly to have CMs like Kirby.
The wifi here sucks
Cut Mashtooth, from my memory the energy draining thing isn't given enough weight for it to be bad enough (I'd compare it to harmless Taken for Granite situations in other kid friendly stories) and Srags is right about the Moon thing being Fridge Horror. Cut the Manga guy too he doesn't sound bad enough.
For Evil, it might help if someone watches a lets play to double check that bit.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
The Ultimate Lifeform
Kirby is absolutely not too silly for C Ms. There just isn't a whole lot of characterization or there are other mitigating factors despite them being absolutely heinous enough.
@Papyru What I remember is that the "destroy the planet" argument had to do with the boss fight against Evil where he fires a giant green ball. It's going towards the ground but like Mashtooth and Ogura it's never actually indicated to be a planetary threat because it's only a game over mechanic.
Edited by Mediamagician on Jul 28th 2023 at 9:53:09 AM
Cut all the Starfy guys
Cut the Starfy baddies
x4 I am not familiar to the franchise, but is Kiry one of those examples where we can *theoretically* have one but don't?
Edited by Mr-ex777 on Jul 29th 2023 at 1:04:37 AM
@Mr-ex777 Correct. Very few villains in Kirby are heinous enough but there are some who are heinous enough and serious enough like Star Dream. None of them count due to redeeming qualities or agency issues(sometimes both). Star Dream has agency issues.
Edited by Mediamagician on Jul 28th 2023 at 10:15:05 AM
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Star trio.
Cut the Starfy villains and talking about Kirby villains before I thought that Haltmann was out done by Star Dream and that Popstar was the only one where he tried kill everyone.
I was wondering if I was wrong about Popstar being the only planet getting damaged that bad and if Haltmann in the present day after losing his memories could count since I saw that characters with amnesia could count since they often count as their own characters.
Edited by umaprasis on Jul 28th 2023 at 11:34:23 AM
Bye
Cut the Starfy villains
Already done![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]")
For Film!Sauron, I cheated a little and potholed Sauron to his evil forces (seems odd to not have that SOMEWHERE), and moved Evil Overlord around "Lord of the Rings".
EDIT: I also added Anton's last name to Sean's entry and potholed it to The Generalissimo.
Everything else looks good.
Edited by ACW on Jul 28th 2023 at 5:54:49 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts