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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#7701: Jul 15th 2023 at 12:54:30 PM

Right uh here's a weird thing to bring up. On Rourke's character page, it lists this.

  • Even Bad Men Love Their Mamas: While it's never mentioned in the movie itself, supplementary material reveals that Rourke greatly looked up to his father as a child and that it was deeply traumatizing when his dad was killed in service at a young age. Some of his ruthlessness could be explained as a desire to not succumb to the same weakness that killed his dad.

Now I'm ignoring the last part since that's speculation but uh... being traumatised by his father dying? In the film he never mentions any family at all but we don't go by "oh X never mentions them after ergo they don't care". Could anyone verify about this? Be a backwards ass cut if this happens.

Edited by WetFlannels on Jul 15th 2023 at 10:27:37 AM

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#7702: Jul 15th 2023 at 1:01:23 PM

What supplementary materials did the thing with his dad come up?

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#7703: Jul 15th 2023 at 1:04:46 PM

[up] That's why I said about anyone being able to verify. I'm aware Wikis aren't the supreme source of information but this is what the page for Rourke says on the Disney Wiki. I've only searched this after seeing the loved ones entry.

Lyle Tiberius Rourke was born in 1860 and learned the ways of military life at an early age. In 1864, his father, a cavalry officer named Lt. Col. Jackson, was killed in battle during the Civil War. After repeated expulsions from boarding school for fighting, Rourke resolved to follow in his father's footsteps and joined the military at age fifteen. There, he exhibited a remarkable talent for leadership, owing to his analytical mind, charisma, and refusal to acknowledge the white flag surrender. He married in June 1887, but his wife left him after only four months.

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#7704: Jul 15th 2023 at 1:05:54 PM

Don't we ignore All Their In The Manual like that if it's not in the work ? The site goes on death of the author. If you don't put it in the work than its not something we care about.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#7705: Jul 15th 2023 at 1:07:38 PM

That's why I asked, if it was some canon tie-in stuff he's a cut, but if it's just some random All There in the Manual stuff he's a keep

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
hegelvonaxel Since: Feb, 2018
#7706: Jul 15th 2023 at 2:18:20 PM

It could be like Joffrey and Robert situation where there isn't actual love but admiration.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#7707: Jul 15th 2023 at 2:25:45 PM

There are a couple things I'd like clarified before we entertain it anyways: firstly, as mir says, was this even done by the film's writer?; secondly, what's the depth of his relation to his father... wanting to be a strong military man like the dad he hardly had the time to know alone doesn't sound redeeming, I'd expect some actual detail on how he was traumatized as the entry claims?

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#7708: Jul 15th 2023 at 2:30:11 PM

Right having a search, I genuinely don't know where this information has came from? There's no tie-ins that have the characters backstories and whatnot.

[down] No idea, there's no citing any links about this backstory either.

Edited by WetFlannels on Jul 15th 2023 at 10:35:36 AM

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#7709: Jul 15th 2023 at 2:30:51 PM

A random interview or toy description?

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#7710: Jul 15th 2023 at 2:37:19 PM

Could have also been from the tie-in website at the time. Like I remember the toy story 2 website says Pete grew to love his being owned by the Katie the artist. (This is not me saying Pete is a CM, simply bringing up All There in the Manual stuff). The point is unless the movie heavily alludes to that a la The Batman (2022) and the rataalada ARG, I'm not willing to consider stuff like that canon.

Edited by jjjj2 on Jul 15th 2023 at 5:37:32 AM

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#7711: Jul 15th 2023 at 2:45:32 PM

Well if this thing with his has seemingly cone from whoever wrote that description's ass I say keep Rourke

Edited by Agentofchaos on Jul 15th 2023 at 5:45:39 AM

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#7712: Jul 15th 2023 at 2:49:50 PM

We can ask the troper in question, they're still active on the website:

~Snailfish which supplementary materials told you that Rourke enlisted due to his father?

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#7713: Jul 15th 2023 at 3:02:49 PM

Yeah best I can find, Rourke's father is mentioned in DVD extras, the website, and the Journal of Milo Thatch, but even then nowhere can I find proof that he was "traumatized" by the loss of his dad, just mentions that his father died and Rourke wanted to "follow in his footsteps". Also Rourke apparently participated in the Wounded Knee massacre, who knew? [lol]

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#7714: Jul 15th 2023 at 3:05:24 PM

[up] you learn something new every day.

Keep Rourke, any potential care sounds vague at best.

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#7715: Jul 15th 2023 at 3:10:26 PM

Sounds like keep for Rourke.

[up][up] I love when Disney movie teach me something about history. [lol]

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#7716: Jul 15th 2023 at 3:13:17 PM

If that's all we have I'm gonna be a keep as well. When he was a child and could be because he admired strength. It's vague enough that it's not anywhere near disqualifying.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#7717: Jul 15th 2023 at 4:15:59 PM

Keep, zero indication he cared for daddy.

IPP Wick Check created.
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#7718: Jul 15th 2023 at 4:16:51 PM

Ah DVD extras, times were simpler then lmao.

Yeah if that's all there is, Rourke can stay. Thanks for the deep dive there Rav!

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#7721: Jul 15th 2023 at 5:38:32 PM

That's all I needed to hear, keep Rourke.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#7722: Jul 15th 2023 at 5:39:42 PM

Keep Rourke

It's Spooky Month!
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#7723: Jul 15th 2023 at 6:16:24 PM

Took this off of Ultimate Spider-Man (2012). I assume he doesn't count in this show?

  • While Norman Osborn was the Big Bad of Season 1 (though Spidey was led to believe that it was Dr. Octopus), the Green Goblin crossed way more lines than he ever did (attacking a school, destroying the SHIELD Helicarrier, crushing Connors' arm, turning Harry back into Venom (then disowning him when he rejected the symbiote), attempting to murder Spider-Man, kidnapping Peter Parker and turning him into Carnage, and trying to destroy the Helicarrier again (this time after setting Venom loose in it). And that's just the first two seasons.

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#7724: Jul 15th 2023 at 6:18:41 PM

I think main universe Norman had a Heel–Face Turn in that show

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#7725: Jul 15th 2023 at 6:19:40 PM

I'm also pretty sure that the Ultimate!Goblin from that show outheinouses him, if I remember previous discussions correctly


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