TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Complete Monster Cleanup

Go To

Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
The Ultimate Lifeform
#7626: Jul 11th 2023 at 11:20:54 PM

[tdown] to the Aldrich rewrite, it's fine as is. If Emperor Belos gets all his crimes after Flapjack's death which include the painful possession of Raine, tricking The Collector into subjecting Luz, Eda, and King to psychic torture, another attempt at genocide, and killing Luz herself (a feat that even the Core and Bill Cipher cannot claim as Anne's death was due to Heroic RRoD and Bill never fully killed any of the protagonists, whereas Belos unambiguously and directly murders Luz) left off his writeup, then I think leaving the super minutia of what Aldrich plans for Marcy is prefectly acceptable.

Edited by ForgoLight on Jul 11th 2023 at 11:24:34 AM

"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#7627: Jul 12th 2023 at 1:37:42 PM

So, i was checking the episodes from Blood Ties for Blood Books new page image, and after seeing the episode, i have a question regarding Monsignor Javier Mendoza, primarily his possible regret and care toward his deceased devotee Maria.

In the episode Heart of Fire, at 35:35 time mark he revealed what he wanted Henry to confess for the entire time, for "murder" of Maria, when Henry started to blame him and pointed out that he was the one, who killed her, after Henry turned her into a vampire, Mendoza desperately denied it and screams that he "saved her soul" and got furious and left Vicki to be killed by feral Henry.

Here is the episode for anyone, who wants to check it out, as i said, the moment starts at 35:35 time mark:

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#7628: Jul 13th 2023 at 1:44:57 AM

As the one who proposed him, I don't think its an issue. Mendoza does claim he saved her soul, but that's the same line of justification he was using before he became a vampire hunter and afterwards. The episode leans on him being nothing more than a petty fanatical sadistic hypocrite.

Whilst its clear he does blame Henry for Marie's death, Henry rightfully points out that he murdered her without a moments hesitation, and that his entire campaign of three hundred years of murder and torture, is just a way for him to place the blame on someone else so he doesn't have to face up to who he truly is.

Him leaving Vicki to get killed by Henry just further demonstrates how hallow his supposed belief is, as he flat out rejects the confession he claims will save the soul, all so he can twist the knife on last time for Henry.

ElJuaco Since: Aug, 2019
#7629: Jul 13th 2023 at 7:03:27 AM

Hi again, fellow tropers! After Helmut von Mephisto's removal, I thought about researching previous approved characters from the Complete Monster category and after checking on Never Say Never Again, does that Ernst Stavro Blofeld really count? He seems to rely too much on Maximillian Largo to carry out his dirty work, spends most of the time offscreen and nothing suggests that he doesn't care for his cat. Just sharing my thoughts.

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#7630: Jul 13th 2023 at 7:06:45 AM

Blofeld wants to extort the earth with nuclear threat, Largo just devised the scheme (with his own personal flourishes which helped him stick) to obtain the nukes. I'd say he's good and he's just stroking the cat? He's not doting over it as funny as it would be to see Max Von Sydow doing that.

Here's Blofeld's speech

I am Supreme Commander of SPECTRE, the Special Executive for Counterintelligence, Terrorism, Revenge and Extortion. Yesterday morning, the American Air Force launched 2 cruise missiles from Swadley Air Base in Great Britain. Through the ingenuity of SPECTRE, the dummy warheads they carried were replaced with live, nuclear warheads. Your weapons of destruction are now safely in our possession and will be moved to two secret targets. Please note the serial numbers of the missiles; they will confirm the truth. Your weapons of deterrence did not deter us from our objective! A terrible catastrophe now confronts you. However, it can be avoided by paying a tribute to our organization, amounting to twenty-five percent of your respective countries' annual oil purchases. We have accomplished two of the functions that the name SPECTRE embodies: terror and extortion. If our demands are not met within seven days, we shall ruthlessly apply the third: revenge!

Edited by WetFlannels on Jul 13th 2023 at 3:08:27 PM

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#7631: Jul 13th 2023 at 7:16:47 AM

Yeah, we're talking a guy whose active plotting of SPECTRE is made fully clear. Blofeld goes front and center with the scheme to extort the world and is engaged in all the evil stuff SPECTRE does. Largo is carrying it out, but Blofeld keeps.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#7632: Jul 13th 2023 at 1:06:13 PM

[up][up] so what next batch of quotes do you have to bring for cut if I may ask?

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#7633: Jul 13th 2023 at 1:22:53 PM

[up] I'll be going through the animated films next. Probably tomorrow since I've had to deal with some shit today.

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#7634: Jul 13th 2023 at 2:53:59 PM

I'm still on an SVU kick and I think Charlie could do with a slight update to include more crimes of his.

Old

  • "Dominance": Charlie Baker had in the past raped his brother Billy, and then beat up his alcoholic father when they were caught; Charlie continues to beat his father. In the span of a week, Charlie has either killed, or manipulated the weak-willed Billy into killing, around 10 people, but not before forcing them to have sex with each other first. Then he kidnapped two women, killed their boyfriends, and kept them captive on a roof.

New

  • "Dominance": Charlie Baker had in the past raped his brother Billy, and then beat up his alcoholic father when they were caught; Charlie continues to beat his father. In the span of a week, Charlie has either killed, or manipulated the weak-willed Billy into killing, around 10 people, but not before forcing them to have sex with each other first. Then he kidnapped two women, killed their boyfriends, and kept them captive on a roof where they risk dying of exposure. Charlie also framed Billy so he would face punishment for his crimes.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#7635: Jul 13th 2023 at 2:54:05 PM

As the one who proposed him, I don't think its an issue. Mendoza does claim he saved her soul, but that's the same line of justification he was using before he became a vampire hunter and afterwards. The episode leans on him being nothing more than a petty fanatical sadistic hypocrite.

Whilst its clear he does blame Henry for Marie's death, Henry rightfully points out that he murdered her without a moments hesitation, and that his entire campaign of three hundred years of murder and torture, is just a way for him to place the blame on someone else so he doesn't have to face up to who he truly is.

Him leaving Vicki to get killed by Henry just further demonstrates how hallow his supposed belief is, as he flat out rejects the confession he claims will save the soul, all so he can twist the knife on last time for Henry.

I just mean that i remember we DQ cadidates, who despite refusing to take responsibility for their crimes, still holded some sort of care for someone. It is revealed in the end, that through the entire episode all his demands for Henry to "confess" were solely so Henry would "admit" that "he killed Marie", and when confronted with the reality that Mendoza is himself killed her, after seeing that Henry turned her into a vampire, he desperately says that he "saved her soul" and him leaving Vicki to be killed by feral Henry was out of Henry refusing to "confess" and keeping saying that Mendoza "condemned" Marie. And i think, if this was enough to enrage Mendoza with the addition of how desperate he was when claiming he "saved her", isn't this a proof of some sort of twisted geniune care about Marie?

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Jul 13th 2023 at 12:57:30 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#7636: Jul 13th 2023 at 4:00:14 PM

Yeah, earnestly...this is giving me heavy concern for Mendoza

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#7637: Jul 13th 2023 at 4:07:10 PM

Once again point out that the moment i'm talking about is at 35:35 time mark here:

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#7638: Jul 13th 2023 at 4:17:46 PM

Rewrite looks good. Just get rid of the comma between "killing" and "around".

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#7639: Jul 13th 2023 at 5:28:31 PM

Very: Well I might be remembering it wrong, but didn't Henry confess at the end but Mendoza just rejected it when he realised he was about to kill Vicki? I don't recall their being any link between his decision to do that and Marie. Heck I don't recall him even bringing up Marie after Henry rightfully pointed out he was the one who killed her and his entire so called crusade is a lie.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#7640: Jul 13th 2023 at 5:44:48 PM

I linked the episode, it's free on YouTube and even time stamped the moment i was talking about. I feel kinda insulted that i linked the episode and pointed out when the scene takes place and it seems nobody checked it out, despite the scene being little over a minute long.

Mendoza directly mentioned Marie and tells Henry to "confess" and when Henry asks what he needs to confess about, Mendoza said: "You killed her. You killed Marie."

Then Henry doesn't confess but says Mendoza how it actually happened (that Mendoza killed her upon seeing that she was turned into a vampire), which led to Mendoza screaming that he "saved her" and when Henry refused to back down, he furiously throwed Henry a smell of blood and left Vicky to be killed by feral Henry.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Jul 13th 2023 at 3:57:47 PM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#7641: Jul 13th 2023 at 5:51:26 PM

Let's stay calm, I don't see a reason to feel "insulted" here. MGD's seen the episode and felt they recalled it well enough to comment and Lighty voiced this being concerning. I'm going to vouch for a cut looking at it myself, it does sound to me like a twisted form of care given Mendoza's beliefs but I don't think this needs to get heated either.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#7642: Jul 13th 2023 at 5:55:33 PM

Very: Apologies, I meant no offense. Having watched through I understand where your coming from, but for me its the scene that comes immediately after that, namely between 38:50 to 39:30.

Where he immediately goes right back to his calm, supposedly righteous act flat out denies the very same confession he was demanding moments earlier just so he can further hurt Henry and brushes off it being pointed out.

Now I understand if others disagree, but to me that was enough to subvert any genuinely I took from his feelings to Marie. But as Very rightfully says, the clips are available for everyone to watch, I appreciate you linking it.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#7643: Jul 13th 2023 at 5:56:01 PM

I didn't get heated. I'm sorry, if i presented miself in that way. It's just, by the look of the comment, i thought MGD didn't recheck the episode, since they talked about Henry "confessing", which didn't happen, Henry defied Mendoza and kept saying that, in reality, Mendoza himself "condemned" Marie.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Jul 13th 2023 at 4:00:07 PM

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#7644: Jul 13th 2023 at 6:00:22 PM

Sorry I think we we're talking about different points. Yes Henry refuses to confess when Mendoza demands it pointing out he killed her. But when he realises where this is going, he does agree to in the hopes of saving Vicki, only for Mendoza to deny it despite it being literally what he was demanding moments earlier, as it wasn't "freely given".

Considering his MO is to torture confessions out of people, and his entire emotional state disappears in seconds. I took it that he wasn't genuine in his feelings to her, just that it was part of his own twisted egotistic fanaticism. Still I can understand if you disagree.

Edited by MGD107 on Jul 13th 2023 at 6:10:41 AM

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#7645: Jul 13th 2023 at 6:09:57 PM

I leaning keep, MGD makes some really good arguments and that clip isn't swaying me at all.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#7646: Jul 13th 2023 at 6:39:32 PM

Think I might amend as well, I only saw the one clip and that is a good point about his methods and feeding into his own fanaticism.

Apologies for not watching further into the video there MGD!

Edited by 43110 on Jul 13th 2023 at 9:40:44 AM

Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#7647: Jul 13th 2023 at 8:04:11 PM

Keep Mendoza & Blofeld.

Is it okay to discuss quotes and then swap Sandbox.Monster The Bill? I haven't heard of or seen any new proposals for the show in a few weeks and we have enough entries for a page (9).

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
TheWrongOne41 The Clown is in town (*he*/she/they) from Somewhere, Mexico Since: May, 2022 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
The Clown is in town (*he*/she/they)
#7648: Jul 13th 2023 at 11:30:08 PM

Here's a rewrite on an entry of mine i want to make, cause i feel like it could be written better.

Original:

  • "Jezaille Brett", real name Asa Shinn, is in truth a sadistically xenophobic assassin sent by the justice system of Britain, one of the most important members of the main conspiracy in the game, and the most despicable of them for lacking any of the good intentions of her co-conspirators. Already known as an assassin in the dark corners of London, Brett was hired by Mael Stronghart to assassinate every person who escaped the guilty verdict from the cases of Barok van Zieks, with a total of 16 victims killed in numerous "accidents", effectively being the one who made him into "The Reaper of The Bailey". Later on, Brett would be sent to Japan under a fake identity to be a student of John Wilson, only for her to assassinate him with an agonizing, undiscovered poison, and later shooting the corpse for Ryunosuke Naruhodo to take the fall. When Brett was pulled to the trial of the murder, she would make racist remarks against the Japanese throughout the trial, and at one point, break an important piece of evidence just to laugh about her untouchable superiourity. Taking pleasure in the pain of others, including those of her own ethnicity, Asa demonstrates how low the British could go in terms of hating other races.

Rewrite:

  • "Jezaille Brett", real name Asa Shinn, is in truth a sadistically xenophobic assassin sent by the justice system of Britain, one of the most important members of the main conspiracy in the game, and the most despicable of them for lacking any of the good intentions of her co-conspirators. Already known as an assassin in the dark corners of London, Shinn was hired by Mael Stronghart to assassinate every person who escaped the guilty verdict from the cases of Barok van Zieks, with a total of 16 victims killed in numerous "accidents", effectively being the one who made him into "The Reaper of The Bailey". Later on, Shinn would be sent to Japan under a fake identity to be a student of John Wilson, only for her to assassinate him with an agonizing, undiscovered poison, and later shooting the corpse for Ryunosuke Naruhodo to take the fall. When Brett was pulled to the trial of the murder, she would make racist remarks against the Japanese throughout the trial, and at one point, break an important piece of evidence just to laugh about her untouchable superiourity. Taking pleasure in the pain of others, especially of other races, it's her own hatred and narcissism that leads to her death, even when she was already about to remain scot-free from her crimes.

Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice. (also i'm fluid now)
Mediamagician Since: Jul, 2023
#7649: Jul 14th 2023 at 1:24:26 AM

@VVV "I just mean that I remember that we DQ candidates, who despite refusing to take responsibility for their crimes, still holded some sort of care for someone."

There have been candidates cut on the basis of twisted care, true, but there is still a difference between care for someone as a part of a fanatic mindset rather than care for Marie as a person.

This seems to be the former and not the latter, and even if he had held care for Marie it seems to be only in past tense because it seems like his emotional response was just to manipulate Henry into giving a false confession which might make him even worse.

In short, I am not getting any vibes from this villain in the same way as someone like Brenner or that Slasher show villain who got cut. Keep Mendoza.

Edited by Mediamagician on Jul 14th 2023 at 4:00:42 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#7650: Jul 14th 2023 at 2:15:18 AM

Keep Mendoza.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

Total posts: 18,821
Top