Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread
.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here
) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread
.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread
, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread
. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Alright cheers for the feedback folks! I'll remove them accordingly from the sandbox.
EDIT: I had put the quote sandbox in the drafts page with the other sandboxes to be moved but it's seemed to have been removed, or was it updated with the batch? I was keeping it there for easy access.
Alright found it, @ACW I was keeping it there so I could update it accordingly while I'm doing this quote purge bud.
Edited by WetFlannels on Jul 3rd 2023 at 12:59:43 PM
What's wrong D-16? Rise up!Alright here's the comic quotes which I think should be removed.
More appropriate for You Monster!, cut.
More suitable for Card-Carrying Villain IMO, cut
Ngl this one's just bad IMO, cut
This is more of a twisted Badass Boast and Carnage already has two far superior quotes listed. Could go either way with this one.
Another bad quote, cut
Just a lengthy threat, cut.
More appropriate for Omnicidal Maniac, cut
This is just a bad one for the trope, cut.
Baron Karza: An endless list of atrocities, eh, my lady Slug? Yes! I am an artist of atrocities—a master of disaster! And you—while you may be the real Lady Slug in spirit—are now only a pale, pathetically frail old woman, so susceptible to nervous shock!
Duchess Belladonna: [After Karza kills Slug] Y-you killed her! You struck her down in cold blood! You MONSTER! You evil, inhuman MURDERER.
Karza: Such strong words, Duchess! I do not understand!...Now you'll have no rival for your Baron's love!
Belladona: L-love a heinous horror like you?! I-I'd rather die!
Karza: I am always willing to oblige a lady, Duchess! [Snaps Belladonna's neck]
Karza's other quotes are far more nasty than this one and it relys too much on the context with the actions inputted, cut.
Simon "Si" Coltrane: Because it's fun. Two years back, I was driving home drunk when I ran a guy over. I got out to help, saw I'd killed him. It was four A.M.; no one around. I got back in the car and drove like Hell, and it was five minutes before I realized I was 'laughing fit to bust — 'cause I'd gotten clean away with it. So I began seeing what else I could get away with, and it just got funnier each time. Why? You were expecting some crap about getting raped by my dad? Or being a wolf that preys on humanity, blah-blah-blah? Anyway, don't scream, or the cops'll come and they'll get Jesse anyway. I'm gonna go tell Bridges about his lucky break. Then we'll head up to my folks' place, and I'll get them out of the freezer... and then I'll show you just how much fun serial killing can be.
Seems more Freudian Excuse Denial, can go either way.
More suitable for Sadist, cut.
Lacks the oomph IMO, cut.
Lacks the oomph and seems more of a Badass Boast, cut.
Lacks oomph, cut
Woo this group of evil guys has a guy who's the most evil of them. Cut
Keep the Degaton and Preecher quotes cut the rest
Edited by G-Editor on Jul 3rd 2023 at 3:01:43 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffOkay, as the ones who did the Morrow, Degaton and Brainiac quotes, may I ask what standard we're operating on here? I've been focusing on quotes that illustrate the utter cruelty required for the trope, and specifically fail to see how a You Monster! description or a "lengthy threat" contradict being listed here too. Not too attached to the Brainiac quote, but I say keep the other two, especially as Morrow's quote explicitly describes him as the worst of the worst.
Mainly, I feel a quote would have to exemplify most of the criteria for the trope i.e. showing zero remorse/no mitigating factors along with showcases of their worst acts albeit not in the context of a Badass Boast or whatnot.
Mainly that, also my opinion isn't the final one for this. People are fine with the Preacher one, I'm not gonna remove just because I disagree.
As for the Morrow quote, all I get is You Monster!, there's no reason why he's a CM behind it, just that he's murderous and a Satanist.
Done
Edited by WetFlannels on Jul 4th 2023 at 8:24:37 PM
What's wrong D-16? Rise up!I noticed one of the writeups on the Silent Witness CM page required a minor edit:
- "Safe": Keenan Barnes is a viciously cruel gang leader. Grooming vulnerable children, Keenan subjects them to a brutal gang rape as an initiation. After Errol defects upon witnessing Keenan rape a 13-year-old girl, Keenan has his artery cut so that Errol will be conscious and terrified as he dies, with Errol only surviving due to the intervention of Leo. Keenan then shoots a rival dead in front of numerous children and manipulates Errol's 10-year-old brother AJ into joining. When Errol is killed by a rival gang, Keenan forces AJ to knife a man to death in public, getting one of his men to do it when AJ refuses and forcing him to watch. For daring to speak to the police, Keenan has AJ fed alive to a dog, opting to knife him in the stomach so that he will suffer in agony before expiring, and then attempts to rape an underage girl before being arrested.
Errol’s brother is actually called Levi. AJ is the guy in charge of the community service. Here’s the edited version:
- "Safe": Keenan Barnes is a viciously cruel gang leader. Grooming vulnerable children, Keenan subjects them to a brutal gang rape as an initiation. After Errol defects upon witnessing Keenan rape a 13-year-old girl, Keenan has his artery cut so that Errol will be conscious and terrified as he dies, with Errol only surviving due to the intervention of Leo. Keenan then shoots a rival dead in front of numerous children and manipulates Errol's 10-year-old brother Levi into joining. When Errol is killed by a rival gang, Keenan forces Levi to knife a man to death in public, getting one of his men to do it when Levi refuses and forcing him to watch. For daring to speak to the police, Keenan has Levi fed alive to a dog, opting to knife him in the stomach so that he will suffer in agony before expiring, and then attempts to rape an underage girl before being arrested.
A general policy question is how is The Sociopath handled? Is it under the assumption they aren’t a medical sociopath (which would instantly disqualify them on grounds of agency) or just that they just act like they are one but actually aren’t technically one.
Once Upon A Time.I think it primarily depends on how far the work leans into the idea that they are genuinely mentally ill, but we generally accept them regardless (sociopathy in itself doesn't generally turn someone into a monster). For examples of each, if I understand the source material correctly, Rhoda Penmark is so sociopathic that she's genuinely incapable of understanding that she's doing anything wrong, but characters that are in themselves diagnosed sociopaths (such as my own Susan Reynolds) are still fair game.
Cut the quotes save Degaton and Preacher. Also, got some rewrites.
- Gotham Society of Fireproof Women:
- David Cain was a member of the League of Assassins, assigned to the creation of "The One-Who-Is-All" as a bodyguard for Ra's al Ghul. Training his daughter Cassandra since birth to fulfill this role, Cain refused to teach her to read, write, or even speak; he instead taught her how to be the perfect weapon by murdering people in front of her. One of his favorite lessons involved shooting her in a non-vital area, and if she so much as flinched he would shoot her again. When Cassandra ran away after her first assassination at the age of nine, Cain would betray the League as he obsessively tried to hunt her down. Recruited years later by Harmonia, Cain assisted in creating distractions for Batman by massacring Black Mask's forces, later attempting to cause an international incident by assassinating a Kahndaqi diplomat. Cain taunts Cassandra for becoming a "faulty sword" under Batman's tutelage but runs for his life without hesitation in a fair fight, even threatening to shoot a hostage in a vain attempt to avoid defeat. He later tries to draw out Cassandra for a final match, threatening to kill thousands with bombs set around Gotham. Cain ultimately cares for nothing except securing his "immortality" through the creation of the perfect weapon.
- A Faulty Sword: Nemesis is the Greek Goddess of Grudges, Blood Feuds, and the Unjustly Slain. Centuries ago she created the Army of Nemesis, an unstoppable force of evil that horrified the Olympians and caused Zeus to kill her. Possessing Harmonia in modern times, Nemesis hijacks her plan to destroy the multiverse with the Army, inflicting Jason Todd with horrific visions of the Joker torturing him and forcing him to massacre a bar full of innocents after he raises his voice at her. Nemesis later tricks Wonder Woman into killing both her and Harmonia, activating the Army and sending them to destroy all life on earth so that the Olympians will starve to death, while the alternate versions of Harmonia throughout the universe will be eternally trapped in maddening insanity without the Army to end their pain. While her plan is foiled, the Army nevertheless manages to kill hundreds of innocents and four dozen heroes.
- Motherland: Ra's al Ghul is the head of the League of Assassins, an organization dedicated to wiping out ninety percent of all human life in his egotistical desire to save the planet and rule the dwindled population. Killing thousands throughout the centuries in pursuit of his goal, Ra's seeks a male heir in the form of Batman, raising Astrid Arkham to believe Bruce murdered her mother so she'll kill all his friends and sever his ties to Gotham. Once Astrid is old enough to enact this plan, Ra's shifts focus, targeting Cassandra Wayne to become his bride and loosing Astrid to wreak havoc. Now seeking petty revenge on the city that foiled him time and time again, Ra's starts fires in the Amazon to draw out Poison Ivy, intending to use her to disperse Venom throughout Gotham so the populace will tear itself apart. Learning that he has an illegitimate granddaughter through Talia, Ra's wipes out the entire town of Parisot in an attempt to rid himself of the potential usurper. Even after Cassandra sabotages his plan,, Ra's tries to kill Bruce and Selina, revealing himself under his thin veneer of politeness to be a petty narcissist obsessed with continuing his lineage.
Cleaned up an awkward phrasing in Cain's (Black Adam's diplomat -> Kahndaqi diplomat); added the bit about driving the other Harmonias insane for Nemesis, just to emphasize she counts on personal cruelty over attempted kills when Harmonia is aiming higher with the same resources; and emphasized that Ra's is motivated by ego in his usual ecoterrorism, since the original doesn't properly refute it.

Alright I've gone through the Anime&Manga folder to start off with and here's the ones I think need removing or trimming down. Moving this to be a page topper.
Magatsu Taito: Y-You scum! You didn't know [me] for sure?
Shira: Not until now. So, THAT was your little sweetie. Too skinny, but an okay piece of ass.
Magatsu: You're screwing with me. A bastard like you doesn't remember everyone he kills.
Shira: True enough, but I remember THAT one...that was the last bitch I ever screwed. So, yeah, I remember. I did her before I "did" her. Spare me the shock. She was a WHORE. Spreading her legs was her BUSINESS, yeah? For anybody who had the cash. Heh heh. Hey, kid, wanna hear a cool trick? Normally I ain't interested in screwing, see? Too boring. But lemme tell ya a secret. Get inside 'em, THEN start cutting them up! Get it? When ya cut bitches where it HURTS, first the muscles go limp, and then they all tighten up. THOSE muscles, too, kiddo. Heh heh heh. Think about it. YOU'RE a guy. There's nothing like it, man! Now, hey, I ain't no serial killer. I don't do it that way every time. Your girl? She was only number FIVE on the hit parade. THAT'S WHY I REMEMBER HER! GYAH HAH HAH!!!
Quote could be trimmed from the "Normally I ain't interested in screwing" sentence and why does the quote have random words captalised? Does he randomly shout them or something?
Seems more suitable for “The Reason You Suck” Speech tbh
Wah I'm so evil mwahahaha. I say cut
I don't get where the CM is for the quote? Cut
Jotaro Kujo: Bastard... You took their souls!
Telence T. D'Arby: Obviously, as making dolls is my hobby. But, of course, ordinary doll makers cannot imbue their handiwork with human souls. I suppose I may be giving too much away, but that's my Stand's ability. Comparatively, my brother's collection of simple coins made of souls is rather... uninspired. With my collection, you can play dress-up, and have actual chats!
Joseph Joestar: You're just as messed up in the head as your brother! Actually, you're more sadistic than your brother ever was! I'd hate to see what your parents were like!
Kakyoin: I'm out of patience with this sociopath's puppet show. He makes me sick!
—>— Jo Jo's Bizarre Adventure: Stardust Crusaders
Lacks the oomph IMO but can go either way for this one
Seems more suitable for either Determinator, The Unfettered or any trope seeing goodness as weakness. Cut
This is just bad, Cut.
Samus Aran: Ah... uu...
Ridley: FLESH!!! [smiles] I somehow survived by consuming the bodies of your kind, tossed every which way. Foul, foul human flesh. [smacks Samus across the face]
Samus: Guah-help… Ugh... N-... no
Ridley: Heh, humans are always weak to the death of their own kind!! You don't know, maybe I even ate your "mama" so that my cells can live, hm? Is she here [points at his body] or here?! [grabs Samus] At least pay your respects!
Samus: N-... No...
The structure is odd and the actions in it are unncesscary, could literally just be shortened to Ridley's dialogue.
Rin: You bastard! I'll kill you...You worthless son of a...
[Suddenly Apos stabs Rin]
Apos: It must be so painful realizing that you kill your former lover with your own hands and now you just saw the love of your life get killed. This hasn't been your day Rin. Do you want to know why I did all this? Of course you did...It's because I want to eat your memories.
Rin: What?...My memories?
Apos: Yes, the more painful the memories the sweeter it tastes.
Could just be shortened to Apos "painful" speech
More Card-Carrying Villain tbh, leaning cut
Johan: Why not?
Lacks oomph, leaning cut
Joker: What are you...
[Suddenly an explosion occurs and the two Phantom Thieves hear and see it]
Joker: Spade! Queen!
Professor Clover: Your allies are dead.
[Suddenly Joker goes angry]
Professor Clover: What a fine look on your face. Hate me! Despise me!
Shadow Joker: Even sacrificing your own underlings... why?!
Professor Clover: I have acquired everything. I have no need of an organization now. Envy me for my power to hold the world in my grip, phantom thieves! Hahahahaha.
This is just a bad one IMO, cut
The quote is too context heavy IMO because what does scarring the heart mean in context? Cut
“The Reason You Suck” Speech, Cut
Rokuro: What...are...you...
Yuuto: I said this yesterday, too...It's easier to achieve my goal with you at my side. If you do as I say—-
Rokuro: If I do that...You're saying you'll spare Ryogo and the others, right?
Yuuto: [Laughs] You're right, I did say that. Sorry though. The truth is, I was just lying to move things along.
[Rokuro looks surprised]
Yuuto: Now that I have the body and power of a Kegare, just like they do, I can steal the spell power of humans and become stronger by killing them. I'll have power surpassing that of any exorcist. And to have that, I need one thing...The spell power of everyone in the country!
Rokuro: You...They'll all die if you do that!
Yuuto: Maybe so. But when you think about what's to come, oddly, it makes the sacrifice at Hiinatsuki seems a bit insignificant, doesn't it?
Can be shortened to the last 3 pieces of dialogue IMO.
Lack of oomph, Cut
People fine with this? And dw G I saw your agreement there bud.
What's wrong D-16? Rise up!