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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#7001: Jun 14th 2023 at 7:19:03 PM

@43 Tweak works

As for the first floor man the writeup could be tweaked out, there's some unnecessary details and a few grammar issues. Obviously if anyone knows the work, they can correct me.

Original

  • Pie Game: The First Floor Man is a disabled man driven by sadistic pleasure. Proud of him being an psychopath, he would start killing multiple animals in the outside world. Just Like other competitors of Pie Game, the Man joined Money game prior and killed all seven competitors in under a month, exchanging all of his winning prizes to join the Pie game. Getting the sympathy of others, the Man has the Sixth Floor Man as his puppet for his upper-class tyranny, only to torture him once he is exposed as the mastermind. To gain more money by exchanging fun to the game masters, the Man manipulates the Fourth Floor Man's arson plan to look like a "saint" to the Third Floor Man after replacing him to be at the upper floor and saving him when he nearly dies from suffocation, mocking the Fourth Floor Man and crippling him. Later, the Man conducts a human experiment on the protagonist and the Second Floor Woman, driving the latter to insanity. After betraying the Seventh Floor Woman, the Man makes a false alliance with the protagonist, to gather information on his former ally's personal life. Discovering that the seventh floor woman has a child, he attempts to he attempts to "buy" her daughter to torture her in front of her mother. Eventually, the Man plans to kill the protagonist when the latter believes that the former has gone too far and defies him.

Rewrite

  • The First Floor Man is a disabled person who hides a disturbing sadistic streak. Joining the Money Game, The Man killed all of the other competitors within a month to be able to join the Pie Game. With a penchant for manipulation, the First Floor Man manipulates the Sixth Floor man to be his puppet, torturing him when he gets exposed. Causing strife between the Fourth and Third men, the First Floor Man cripples the Fourth man out of sheer amusement. Capturing the protagonist and the Second Floor Woman, the First Floor Man conducts an experiment on them, driving the latter to insanity. Discovering his former ally, the Seventh Floor Woman, has a child, The First Floor Man attempts to "buy" the child purely for the purpose of torturing her in front of her mother. Driven by sadistic pleasure more so than greed, the First Floor man stands out compared to his other morally bankrupt competitors.

Eh thoughts?

Also any response for my query?

Edited by WetFlannels on Jun 14th 2023 at 5:54:28 PM

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#7002: Jun 14th 2023 at 7:21:51 PM

Twiddler: Snatcher appears in multiple issues. Lemme ping ~Ravok for clarification.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#7003: Jun 14th 2023 at 8:12:44 PM

Yeah I'm fine with changing the bluelink and if we want to move Snatcher somewhere else but he's definitely in more issues than one and his actions take up multiple issues as Miles hunts down who is behind the recent string of Child Soldiers, so I'm opposed to just listening him under #3.

Edited by Ravok on Jun 14th 2023 at 8:13:02 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
ANonagon9 (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#7004: Jun 14th 2023 at 8:26:49 PM

Found the entry for Tokuga and while nothing indicates he doesn't keep, the middle sentence doesn't seem relevant to his standing as a monster out of context:

  • Complete Monster: Tokuga is a young, viciously ambitious, up-and-coming mobster who kills the Triple Threat Triad leader, Viper, along with anyone else who might think of challenging him. Selling his services as a mercenary for Wonyong Keum, Tokuga is injured by a dragon-eel spirit and becomes a monstrous blend between human and reptile. Seeking to conquer Republic City, Tokuga seizes containers of nerve gas, plotting to unleash it on Republic City's civilians so he may seize control.

Thoughts?

Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#7005: Jun 14th 2023 at 9:48:50 PM

[up] IIRC he becomes worse after his mutation, since it gives him powers he abuses to injure and kill people.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#7006: Jun 14th 2023 at 9:51:48 PM

I'd say the sentence warranted, it establishes his villainy as a hired gun and then gives context to his own ambitions by pointing out he gets further power with the dragon-eel spirit mutation.

Edited by Ravok on Jun 14th 2023 at 9:52:08 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#7007: Jun 14th 2023 at 9:53:47 PM

Any opinions on this? (With the extra query below lmao)

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
Twiddler (On A Trope Odyssey)
#7008: Jun 14th 2023 at 11:29:33 PM

Yeah I'm fine with changing the bluelink and if we want to move Snatcher somewhere else but he's definitely in more issues than one and his actions take up multiple issues as Miles hunts down who is behind the recent string of Child Soldiers, so I'm opposed to just listening him under #3.

Checked out the first few issues of the series and his other appearances and I see what you mean: he's the Big Bad of the #1-3 arc. (And returns as an antagonist in #42.) How's this?

(I also checked out his Ravencroft appearances, but they're just crowd cameos)

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#7009: Jun 15th 2023 at 12:47:44 AM

[tup] to Wet’s First floor guy rewrite and Tokuga expansion

@ Wet, I say at least Nomura’s unit 731 work is worth adding.

Also, any responses to this would be appreaciated.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#7012: Jun 15th 2023 at 3:29:36 AM

Sure, as long as they fulfill all criteria there is nothing keeping Dark Messiah of.

Edited by EmperorGeode on Jun 15th 2023 at 3:30:33 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#7013: Jun 15th 2023 at 4:54:32 AM

Re: Mars and the "SWAT" team; future's right, it's ambiguous if they're crooked or professional hires dressed as SWAT members and either way they're villains set on killing kids and retrieving the encrypted disk... I don't see Mars killing them as worth adding to a CM writeup.

ANonagon9 (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#7014: Jun 15th 2023 at 5:15:40 AM

To clarify, I'm not saying Tokuga's transformation is unimportant to his character, I'm just saying that if the CM entry is your first exposure to the character, there's no through-line between being transformed and becoming more vile.

Critica7 Self-Declared King of Everything from Smallville Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Self-Declared King of Everything
#7015: Jun 15th 2023 at 5:16:35 AM

Because apparently I wasn’t reading closely enough, I made a mistake on my entry for Bill Cipher of ‘’Three Can Keep a Secret''. I wrote that the part of Bill engineering the war on Mewni was three Bill fragments fused together. No, it was just one fragment. My mistake.

Here’s the current entry:

  • Complete Monster: Bill Cipher retains his canon crimes and adds to them. Using a spell to come Back from the Dead at the cost of dividing himself into nine weaker pieces, all of which have his personality in full, two of the Bill fragments attempt to kill the Pines family, taunting them with the knowledge of Mabel's deal with him and the knowledge that they intend to destroy the Earth. Another Bill fragment takes over an alien scientist and attempts to destroy all life on multiple planets; jumps to a gas harvesting foreman and attempts to blow up the facility, killing everyone on board and poisoning the environment; and attempts to drain the life force of everyone in a hospital. Three other fragments fuse back together and work to engineer a massive war in Mewni, selling improperly stored weapons to monsters and playing politics, with a bit of terrorism added in, to force other factions into the war. Wanting nothing more than to cause as much death as possible, Bill constantly proves himself to be pure evil.

Here’s what I think it should be changed to:

  • Complete Monster: Bill Cipher retains his canon crimes and adds to them. Using a spell to come Back from the Dead at the cost of dividing himself into nine weaker pieces, all of which have his personality in full, two of the Bill fragments attempt to kill the Pines family, taunting them with the knowledge of Mabel's deal with him and the knowledge that they intend to destroy the Earth. Another Bill fragment takes over an alien scientist and attempts to destroy all life on multiple planets; jumps to a gas harvesting foreman and attempts to blow up the facility, killing everyone on board and poisoning the environment; and attempts to drain the life force of everyone in a hospital. Another fragment works to engineer a massive war in Mewni, selling improperly stored weapons to monsters and playing politics, with a bit of terrorism added in, to force other factions into the war. Wanting nothing more than to cause as much death as possible, Bill constantly proves himself to be pure evil.

Check out my current fanfiction project.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#7016: Jun 15th 2023 at 5:51:23 AM

[up]Please add to the Drafts.

43, mind if I do this? "family's teenage daughter Jennifer" and add "kid" before "brother Tommy"?

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#7017: Jun 15th 2023 at 5:55:46 AM

@Geode You familiar with the work bud? If you know how to split properly I've no objections.

Also only Geode has commented on this (please click the other query at the bottom of the post as well lmao)

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#7018: Jun 15th 2023 at 6:00:50 AM

All good ACW, rewrite is good too Wet!

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#7019: Jun 15th 2023 at 7:11:54 AM

The Film page link to The Twilight Saga in Aro's entry came up red. Created a redirect and fixed it last night though.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jun 15th 2023 at 7:19:07 AM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#7020: Jun 15th 2023 at 8:36:04 AM

Twiddler: Looks great [tup]

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#7021: Jun 15th 2023 at 10:10:35 AM

Maybe rewrite it mention how the transformation gives him the ability to hurt people which he now uses.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#7022: Jun 15th 2023 at 10:19:36 AM

I got an old writeup of mine I wanna edit for word flow (and remove that ugly, redundant last summary sentence).

  • Nick of Time: Mr. Smith is a psychotic assassin with a Hair-Trigger Temper hiding under a paper-thin veneer of affability. A member of the conspiracy to assassinate Governor Eleanor Grant, Smith and his cohort Ms. Jones snatch accountant Gene Watson from off the street and browbeat him into carrying out the assassination at the threat of his young daughter Lynn's life—with full plans to likely kill both after they have worn out their use. Smith relentlessly hounds and beats Gene and threatens to brutally murder Lynn for the slightest deviation from the plot, and at one point reminisces over murdering a friend of his for being a "fuck-up." Smith coldly shoots Eleanor's assistant dead after she inadvertently learns too much, and once the plot to kill Eleanor goes awry for the final time, Smith simply indiscriminately fires into a populated crowd to take her out and shortly thereafter tries to murder Lynn himself. Deprived of any real emotion except murderous anger, Smith's tendency to harm anything that so much as displeased him marked him as the absolute worst of those involved in the conspiracy.

to

  • Nick of Time: "Mr. Smith" is an Ax-Crazy assassin who, with his compatriot Ms. Jones, strongarms everyman Gene Watson into carrying out a political assassination under the threat of his little girl Lynn's life. The nastier and the more unstable between himself and Ms. Jones, Mr. Smith beats, threatens and hounds Gene at every opportunity, clearly intending to leave him to face the heat regardless of whether or not he successfully carries out the hit. When his target's assistant clues into too much for her own good, Smith shoots her in the head without blinking, and when his target escapes, Smith fires wildly into a populated crowd just to get her, hitting numerous other innocent people. To do nothing more than blow off some steam after the plan goes up in smoke, Smith tries to personally kill Lynn as well. Even when Gene shoots him in retribution for this, Smith is nothing but happy he's made the man take another life, proudly claiming "I told them I could make a killer out of you!"

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#7024: Jun 15th 2023 at 11:44:07 AM

Honestly, you could do even better:

"Mr. Smith" is an assassin...

Or, if you want Ax-Crazy, feel free to use that for his name.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#7025: Jun 15th 2023 at 11:53:35 AM

So, I just want to make some corrections to Zelada's writeup if necessary, because it turns out Marla Mozeleemay was behind her own husband's death, and that Domingo Tourte was the originally intended other target.

Zelada had initially planned on using Cole Mozeleemay as a puppet leader, as opposed to specifically wanting him dead. I'm not saying Zelada himself needs cutting at all. I'm just saying that the writeup needs alteration. Will be back to evaluate Marla on the other CM thread, too.

While I'm at it, here are updated writeups for Elbaji and Zelada:

  • Cop Craft
    • Zelada is an extremist who uses acts of violence to incite hatred between humans and Semanians. Initially unseen, Zelada frequently uses the "latena" of fairies to kill others and enslave them as controlled corpses. Introduced posing as a subordinate of the smuggler Dennis Elbaji, Zelada demonstrates a prototype for a "fairy dust" bomb on two police officers. Confronted by San-Teresa Police Detectives Kei Matoba and Tilarna Exedilica—the former of whom recognizes Zelada for slaughtering his platoon when Kei was in the military—Zelada exploits their superior's xenophobia in order to escape to the roof of a skyscraper where he intends to amplify his bomb's blast radius. Seemingly dying by falling off the roof—with his bomb having been defused—Zelada eventually reveals himself to still be alive, having planned the assassination of two mayoral candidates in order to install his own puppet and increase tensions between humans and Semanians. Upon capturing Kei and Tilarna, and killing a reporter who met up with them, Zelada claims to be acting in the best interest of the Semanians, but is called out for his cultural posturing and xenophobia by Tilarna before Kei shows up to confront him.
    • Dennis Elbaji is head of a "fairy dust" manufacturing ring who hides behind his role as an up and coming nightclub owner, having abducted over a hundred fairies to manufacture his product for his own personal gain. Introduced having the sorcerer Zelada test a fairy dust bomb on police officers, Elbaji makes Zelada toy with the corpses before having one corpse shoot both. Confronted by Tilarna in his nightclub after harassing her, Elbaji tries to have her shot once he realizes she is on a rescue mission. Subsequently defeating her in a sword fight, Elbaji takes Tilarna prisoner, professing to worship money on the drive to his facility. Later setting his facility ablaze, Elbaji makes a callous quip about how much the fire will cost him when he encounters Tilarna again. Defeated in a final duel thanks to Kei's intervention, Elbaji defiantly curses Tilarna out.

Originals:

  • Cop Craft
    • Zelada is an extremist who uses acts of violence to incite hatred between humans and Semanians. Initially unseen, Zelada frequently uses the "latena" of fairies to kill others and enslave them as controlled corpses. Introduced posing as a subordinate of the smuggler Dennis Elbaji, Zelada demonstrates a prototype for a "fairy dust" bomb on two police officers. Confronted by San-Teresa Police Detectives Kei Matoba and Tilarna Exedilica—the former of whom recognizes Zelada for slaughtering his platoon when Kei was in the military—Zelada exploits their superior's xenophobia in order to escape to the roof of a skyscraper where he intends to amplify his bomb's blast radius. Seemingly dying by falling off the roof—with his bomb having been defused—Zelada eventually reveals himself to still be alive, having arranged the assassination of two mayoral candidates in order to increase tensions between humans and Semanians. Capturing Kei and Tilarna, and killing a reporter who met up with them, Zelada claims to be acting in the best interest of the Semanians, but is called out for his cultural posturing and xenophobia by Tilarna before Kei shows up to confront him.
    • Dennis Elbaji is the head of a "fairy dust" manufacturing ring who hides behind his role as a nightclub owner, having abducted over a hundred fairies to manufacture his product for his own personal gain. Introduced having the sorcerer Zelada test a fairy dust bomb on police officers, Elbaji makes Zelada toy with the corpses before having one corpse shoot both. Confronted by Tilarna in his nightclub after harassing her, Elbaji tries to have her shot once he realizes she is on a rescue mission. Subsequently defeating her in a sword fight, Elbaji takes Tilarna prisoner, professing to worship money on the drive to his facility. Later setting his facility ablaze, Elbaji makes a callous quip about how much the fire will cost him when he encounters Tilarna again. Defeated in a final duel thanks to Kei's intervention, Elbaji defiantly curses Tilarna out.


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