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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#6926: Jun 11th 2023 at 8:12:55 AM

I'm assuming A Realm Reborn is what all the DLC is?

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#6927: Jun 11th 2023 at 8:14:58 AM

Keep Madison

I'm fine with snipping that part of Rax's entry, his feelings on Palps are still questionable given some of his inner dialogue chiding him as a fool but, especially with all the extra lore released after the Aftermath trilogy, I think it's made apparent that Palps wanted Rax to rebuild a new Empire.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Mr-ex777 Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#6928: Jun 11th 2023 at 8:17:43 AM

Taking back the cut vote on Madison

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#6929: Jun 11th 2023 at 8:22:00 AM

second is best.

E Ach update is treated almost like it's own game and Madison is only from a realm reborn.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#6931: Jun 11th 2023 at 9:02:33 AM

[up][up]Got it. I'll do the second.

Also, another folderization question:

I like the second myself.

I also prefer the way at Final Fantasy.

Edited by ACW on Jun 11th 2023 at 12:14:50 PM

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#6932: Jun 11th 2023 at 9:36:15 AM

My search skills may be failing me, but has Gorgon (YMMV.Hydra) been reviewed recently?

He definitely started as a complete monster, but joined the mutant nation of Krakoa (allying with the X-Men and other heroes) in X-Men: The Krakoan Age, died with honor in a duel defending the nation during X of Swords and was subsequently resurrected with a very different personality.

The post-resurrection version might count as Death of Personality and be treated as a completely different person, but not sure of the rules on this - or if any of his pre-death actions as a champion of Krakoa would disqualify him?

(Even if they don't, I guess it might be worth adding a note about his death and resurrection/transformation to the CM entry?)

Edited by Mrph1 on Jun 11th 2023 at 5:36:30 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#6933: Jun 11th 2023 at 9:37:07 AM

Generally we're a little lenient on comcis due to weirdness there...the death of personality thing is probably enough to keep his old self, especially from Agents of Shield

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#6934: Jun 11th 2023 at 9:38:36 AM

[up][tup]

Any need/wish to add a sentence confirming that the CM entry applies to pre-resurrection Gorgon only? If so, I'm happy to draft a quick clarification.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#6936: Jun 11th 2023 at 11:57:53 AM

For Monster.Diablo. Is Big Bad's an appropriate subheader? It's Diablo whose main villain of all three games. Mephisto is a more minor if still important villain at least in the first three ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#6937: Jun 11th 2023 at 12:39:47 PM

I guess we could change it to Prime Evils?

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#6938: Jun 11th 2023 at 12:53:48 PM

Keep Madison. His rape dungeon is definitely unique enough to standout, especially for a minor villain like him

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#6939: Jun 11th 2023 at 12:59:41 PM

Keep Madison.

On the Diablo Big Bad header, it might be appropriate now actually...

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#6940: Jun 11th 2023 at 2:00:03 PM

  • Digimon Next: Barbamon is a Demon Lord who convinced Yggdrasill, central computer of the Digital World, that humanity's abuse of Digimon meant that the links between the worlds should be cut. Becoming a self-aware avatar of Yggdrasill, Barbamon started a tyrannical regime to purge Digimon deemed "illegal" and gather the Eight Digi-Memories to create NEO, a godlike digital to surpass Ygdrassil and recreate the Digital World. Gathering powerful warriors to lead The Commandments, Barbamon would manipulate both Shou and Holy Angemon, corrupting them into Knight and Murmukusmon. Then, the Commandments would carry a murderous crusade across the digital world while Barbamon warps the reincarnation cycle of the Digimon. When the resistance against his rule concentrates in Light City, Barbamon orders the destruction of the city before sending the sadistic Chaosdramon—whom Barbamon created using data of the Dark Area—to kill Andromon and the remaining survivors before mocking Norn, the compassionate human avatar of Yggdrasill, when she is horrified by the brutality. When Barbamon is lethally injured by Victory Greymon, he sacrifices himself to complete the creation of NEO, who would erase both the Digital and Human Worlds following the last desire of his creator.
  • Digimon Chronicles X (link): Lucemon, after obtaining the X-Antibody, decides to create a new plan to bring the digital worlds to ruin to spite his creator Yggdrasill. Gathering the other Great Demon Lords, Lucemon X gives them the X-Antibody to boost their power and launch a invasion to the Old Digital World and sabotage the rebuilding efforts of the Royal Knights. Eventually overwhelmed by the Royal Knights, Holy Digimon, and their allies, Lucemon X reveals having planted Keramon X to immediately absorb the newly resurrected Demon Lords, including himself, to force a Jogress that results in the birth of Ogudomon X, a nightmarish Digimon whose mere existance threatens to destroy both the Old and New Digital World, to Lucemon's delight.
  • Endwalker: Athena is the first chief keyward of Pandæmonium and the source of all its troubles. Obsessed with ascending to godhood and remaking all life to fit her warped standards, Athena marries and has a son, Erichthonios, with Lahabrea solely to serve as her vessel, ensuring his compliance by tampering with his soul to compel him to love her and stunting his magical abilities so he can't fight back. Even after Lahabrea kills her to protect his son, Athena ensures her plans survive by masterminding the creation of Hephaistos to take over Pandæmonium and enslave its staff while also keeping a copy of her personality and memories within the Heart of Sabik, which possesses Erichthonios's present day reincarnation. Upon her final defeat, Athena spitefully tries to break her son with the truth of how she stunted him and attempts to end all life as revenge for being rejected as a god.
  • Flash Gordon (2007): "Benevolent Father" Ming is the tyrannical ruler of the planet Mongo. Controlling the Source Water, Ming heavily taxes Mongo's cantons and threatens to let them die. When Dr. Lawrence Gordon gets transported to Mongo, Ming puts him under a mind scanner and plans to steal Earth's water to renew his dwindling supply. During his rule of Mongo, Ming has any Deviants discovered in Nasant City killed, despite being a Deviant himself. When Flash Gordon and Dale Arden are captured and brought to Mongo, Ming tries to make Dale his pleasure woman, a common occurrence. Ming tries to start a war between Dactyl and Zurn to hide that the Source Water is depleting. When the Baron of Verden tries to kill him, Ming attacks the village, selling its people into slavery. Ming enslaves countless people in the mines, where they are fatally poisoned, and also approves mind control experiments that fry victims' brains. When the heroes freely distribute water Ming stole from Earth and give credit to the Deviants, Ming poisons the water in order to ruin the Deviants reputation. Not even his own family is safe from his cruelty, as when his son was born with a minor deviation, Ming tried to have him killed, and banished his own wife. Despite seeming to care for his daughter Aura, it is revealed that Ming made her mother swear a blood oath that would kill Aura if Vestra ever acknowledged their relationship, and when his daughter stands up to him, he tries to strangle her to death.
  • Jack Reacher: The Zec is a former Gulag inmate turned crime lord defined by his belief that one will do anything to survive. To cover up his corrupt dealings, the Zec has a target assassinated with four other innocent people, framing an innocent former marine to get him the death penalty. Trying to have Reacher and the patsy's attorney murdered, the Zec shows his true brutality by attempting to force failed henchmen to bite off their own fingers. When one man fails, the Zec reveals this is wholly routine and nobody ever passes, before having him shot.
  • Dread Dominion novel, by Stephen Marley: Chief Judge Joe Dread is a parallel version of Street Judge Joe Dredd from a timeline where he shot his clone-brother Rico Dredd instead of arresting him. Days later, Dread shot out a man's kneecaps for jaywalking and gave him 10 seconds to crawl the five meters back to the pedway before he executed him—only to kill him anyways because the man's toecap was still touching the slipway. From there, Dread facilitated his way into becoming Chief Judge, brutally unified Mega-Cities One, Two, and Three, then launched a war which saw him consolidate power and nuke the "expendable" parts of the Mega-Cities into oblivion. This in turn became the excuse for a campaign of world domination, which reduced Australia to a radioactive Death World. A bona fide Multiversal Conqueror after this point, Judge Dread masterminds horrors such as the "Conglomeration" or the "Orchestra," each of which run on the eternal torture of thousands of victims at a time. His idea of "fun" includes instigating literal blood orgies called "Carnal Carnivals" and feeding living people to corpse-recycling machinery, especially enjoying putting whole families on the treadmill to watch them betray each other for a few moments more of life. When finally defeated, Dread attempts to murder his and Judge Dredd's shared younger self, an act that will annihilate both their timelines, out of sheer spite.
  • Mother Brain, a rogue AI created by the Chozo, is the leader of the Space Pirates who enslaves many of her followers to launch attacks all across the universe with the intent to dominate the galaxy. Killing countless beings, Mother Brain intends to harvest the Metroids as a new weapon and send them against entire populations and fleets. Upon facing Samus for the last time, Mother Brain heartlessly kills the baby Metroid who sees Samus as its mother for saving the bounty hunter.
  • Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers: The Movie: Ivan Ooze is a bombastically evil enemy of Zordon, who once "ruled the world with a reign of unparalleled terror". Awoken in the present day by Lord Zedd and Rita Repulsa in order to help defeat the Power Rangers, Ooze uses a group of monsters to distract the Rangers so he's able to destroy the Command Center and leave Zordon to slowly die. Double-crossing Zedd and Rita and taking over their operations, Ivan intends on digging up the Ectomorphicons to help branch out his ambitions of conquest to a universal scale. After giving some of his Ooze to children so that he can brainwash the adults so he can force them to dig up the Ecto-Morphicons for him, Ivan then sends a group of monsters to destroy the Rangers when they try to get their powers back—killing them when they fail. Ivan Ooze eventually orders all of the adults to commit suicide when he no longer needs them and orders the Ectomorphicons to devastate Angel Grove. When one of his Ecto-Morphicons is destroyed by the Rangers, Ooze forcibly takes over the other to try and kill the Rangers himself.
  • Gollum:
    • Sauron is the Dark Lord of Mordor, who rules over the land with an exceptionally cruel system of slavery. Thousands of captured prisoners are subject to humiliating, backbreaking, and lethal labor on a daily basis, forced to wrangle ravenous beasts and go on suicide missions to set off explosives. Additionally, batches of dozens of prisoners are vaporized every hour, their bloody remains used to keep the "dark water" rivers of Mordor constantly flowing. Sauron's forces overthrew Lestor's kingdom and killed his people many years ago, and Sauron turned Lestor into one of his chief torturers, "the Candle Man", while poisoning his daughter against him. With a long history of waging war on all life of Middle-earth, Sauron tortures the broken creature Gollum at the start of the game, and later gives the Mouth free reign to order the decimation of Mirkwood and other kingdoms, all in his quest to reclaim his One Ring.
    • The Mouth of Sauron, having willingly joined the Dark Lord's cause as his lieutenant of the Dark Tower, facilitates the Barad-dûr slave pits under the control of the Candle Man. Allowing thousands of prisoners to be enslaved and put under harsh conditions and punishments to increase Sauron's army for an eventual war, upon Gollum's escape, the Mouth orders the Candle Man to attack numerous Elven kingdoms to retrieve Gollum, which leads to the decimation of Mirkwood with few survivors.
  • Giovanni, initially a doctor with the heroes, is a mole for the White-Clad and one of the most depraved of the lot. Inheriting a mission to bring the Cataclysm to earth, Giovanni steals countless bodies with the hosts dying in the process and Giovanni inevitably moving on. Proving a sadist who constantly delights in the pain of his victims, even sacrificing his own to get to the heroes, Giovanni finally steals the body of the young boy Yu and initiates a new Cataclysm so that all living themes may become fuel for a new inferno.
  • Hunter × Hunter's "Chimera Ant" arc: Zazan is a commander of the Chimera Ants, and the most sadistic of them all. Zazan leads raids like her fellows to kidnap humans to feed the hunger of the Queen, but also murders humans for fun and sport. Once the Queen dies in childbirth, Zazan relocates to Meteor City with designs on world domination. Using her "Queen Shot" to agonizingly mutate people into twisted monsters, Zazan plans to convert every human being in Meteor City in this way before using the army to overrun the world.
  • Blackmass is Captain Victory's evil grandfather and the cruel ruler of the Shadow Empire. 1,000 years ago, he waged bloody wars of conquest across the universe, killing billions and using Shadow to turn populations of entire planets into his soldiers. After being sealed in Quadrant-X, Blackmass continues to lead his empire from his prison. In a bid to turn his grandson into the ultimate weapon, Blackmass has the boy put under the care of the evilest beings in his empire. After Victory kills Batteron, Blackmass breaks the barrier of his prison, intent on killing his rebellious grandson and all of the people on Victory’s flagship.
  • Diabolik: Diabolik himself may be a ruthless master thief, but he operates with a level of honor and has a set of unbreakable standards. As a result, the comic has introduced some pure evil monsters for him to fight at times:
    • Federico is the ambitious Duke of Vallenberg who is aiming for control over the kingdom of Benglait. Creating the terrorist organisation the Grey Ravens, Federico has them provoke a Civil War to cause countless deaths. Marrying Atlea to attempt to claim the throne but failing to do so because of Benglait becoming a republic, Federico fakes his death and orchestrates a series of horrific terrorist attacks upon the kingdom. When Diabolik and Ginko interfere with his plans, Federico continues with his onslaughts and launches an attack on Atlea, so he could return from his supposed demise and have the Grey Ravens convert Benglait into a fascist state with him as ruler.
    • Mr. Logan is the depraved CEO of a pharmaceutical company who's only out for his monetary gain. Purchasing a Synthetic Plague and its vaccine, Logan then unleashes the virus onto the civilian population, killing countless innocents and causing a mass panic. Logan's intention is to then "discover" the vaccine and use it to be able to rake in money from the population and appear as the hero who saved them all.
  • The Dregs: Beck Lasko, the CEO of Carnary Inc., wants to gentrify the city of Vancouver. His plan involves bribing drug dealers to sell drugs laced with sleeping drugs to homeless people. Lasko then had his men kidnap these homeless people, kill them and turn them into food for his fancy restaurant. When confronted by a homeless man, Arnold Marlowe, Lasko reveals the corrupt mayor of the city supports his plan. Lasko mocks him further by holding a food drive where he serves food made from dead homeless people to other homeless people.
  • "Law of Gravity": Frank McCarthy is a figure from Michael Keppler's past. The father of Amy, Michael's childhood sweetheart, Frank raped his own daughter, leading to her suicide, then pinned it on an innocent man, convincing Keppler to kill him. Frank later covered up the murders committed by Dennis Graves, and personally murdered a drug dealer. When Graves is found out, Frank kills him and a prostitute he was with to cover up his involvement. When he learns a witness was in the room, Frank attempts to kill her, only to fatally shoot Michael and attempt to kill Catherine Willows.
  • The Demon Vol. 1 issues #11-13: Baron von Rakenstein, better known as Baron von Evilstein, is a legacy to unethical experimentation and torture who operates on numerous beings in agonizing ways to create a perfect lifeform. Creating a "monster", von Rakenstein keeps it in line being endless torture and pain, with his intent being to do the same to Jason Blood as well so he might wipe out the doubting science community.
  • The Sandman Presents: Dead Boy Detectives: The infamous Gilles de Rais was already a Serial Rapist, torturer, and murderer of children before he turned to an even darker routine to keep himself alive: becoming a Life Drinker of innocent children to keep himself immortal. With each child only buying him a few months, Gilles leaves countless withered corpses behind him through the centuries all the way into modern day London. Gilles seeks to suck out the life of natural immortal Hob Gadling, and has the temerity to whine that Gadling "never had to work a day" to live forever, showing a depthless disregard to every single child he's tortured and drained over the ages.
  • The North Road: Tex Bradshaw is the leader of a massive slaving operation on the North Road. Bradshaw's slavers attack any Wastelanders unlucky enough to be unable to defend themselves, killing some and selling the rest to the Legion. Tex's son keeps a captured woman as a Sex Slave, with Tex having set her collar to explode if she gets further than a few yards from his son, and Tex encourages his son to set off the collar if she defies him, claiming that women like her are easily replaceable. For his own pleasure, Tex films himself torturing women to death, with his most recent film lasting several hours before the victim finally died.
  • Emesis Blue:
    • Jules Archibald is the head of the Jules Archibald Foundation. An acquaintance of the Mann Brothers, Jules sought to profit off the Gravel War by creating an endless army of mercenaries through his Respawn Machine. Experimenting on death row inmates that left hundreds of thousands dead, Jules sold the machines to both Mann Brothers, ensuring years of bloodshed and malfunctioning respawn machines condemning mercenaries to suffer in respawn limbo. During the Gravel War, Jules had three men executed for treason and personally killed Jane Doe just to provide Jacques with a cloned assistant. Hiding out in the Conagher Slaughterhouse when his crimes are uncovered, Jules has Jeremy's mother murdered and him abducted, leading to his torture and murder, just to stop the boy from suing him.
    • Jacques Morneau, also known as The Detective and later on The Smoker, is Jules Archibald's second-in-command. Executing three men for treason while demanding rewards, Jacques' demand for an assistant resulted in Jane Doe's execution and cloning. Going on to murder anyone with dirt on Jules, along with saving him and covering up his messes to ensure Jules faces no justice for his crimes, Jacques goes on to murder Jules when his fake kidnapping results in his disfigurement. Forcing Ludwig and Jane to play Russian Roulette, leading to the former's seeming death, Jacques attempts to force Jane to assist in his plan to frame Ludwig for Jules' murder so he can make off with his employer's money.
  • Sin City duology:
    • First film's "That Yellow Bastard" two-parter: Ethan Roark Jr. is the son of a crooked Senator with the appearance of a handsome, young playboy. Really a sadistic pedophile, Jr. moonlights as a rapist and killer of preteen girls, particularly enjoying their screams as he attacks them. His crimes covered up by Roark Sr., he is eventually caught by heroic cop John Hartigan as he abducts the young Nancy Callahan, Hartigan crippling and castrating him before he can attack the girl. His father having Hartigan imprisoned for revenge, Jr. kidnaps the adult Nancy and prepares to torture, rape, and kill her, boasting to Hartigan of the many—possibly dozens—of victims he took while the latter was incarcerated.
    • A Dame to Kill For's title story: Ava Lord, despite her innocent act, is a ruthless Femme Fatale who acknowledges herself as truly evil. Ava enjoys seducing men, toying with them, destroying everyone around them, and finally arranging their deaths. Doing this to dozens, it has led her right-hand man Manute to see her as a dark goddess. Arranging her husband's death at the hands of Dwight McCarthy, Ava proceeds to seduce and destroy an honest policeman, Mort, to protect herself. When that fails, Ava happily tries to kill Manute to convince Dwight to be a monster like her.
  • Vikingdom: Frey and Thor view mankind's embracing of Christianity as "ingratitude" after their years of protection and resolve to merge Midgard, Valhalla, and Helheim on the day of the "Blood Eclipse", apathetic that thousands of mortals would be wiped out. Thor provides the brawn in the genocidal campaign, ransacking a monastery to obtain the Necklace of Mary Magdalene and crucifying the guardian monk out of spite for his religion, while Frey manipulates Eirick Bloodletter into getting the Horn of Helheim because he was unable to enter the realm. Frey also offers Eirick's brother Beothric more power if he captured his brother and retrieved the Horn, only to poison him once he served his purpose.
  • Father Brown's "The Sign of the Broken Sword": The supposed noble war hero General Sir Arthur St. Clare was, in actuality, anything but. A venal coward, torturer, and slaver who sunk deeper and deeper into sin during his lifetime, St. Clare eventually outright murdered a fellow soldier who confronted him on his crimes. Simply to hide the body of the deceased soldier, St. Clare comes up with a treacherous plan to hide the body among hundreds of other corpses, and so deliberately leads all 800 soldiers in his own regiment into a battle he knows is a suicide mission. With the highest body count of any killer in the series, Clare's treachery is regarded as a particularly irredeemable type of evil even by the famously pious Father Brown.
  • Hungers as Old as This Land: Compared to the creatures of the Hungers, who are vicious but have a warped morality and even a sense of honor, this duo proves that Humans Are the Real Monsters:
    • Cyril Redstone is the sociopathic leader of the Blackhawks, a mercenary band willing to do any dirty job for the right price. Telling a group of unionizing quarrymen that he's come to negotiate, Cyril kills them all to scare their fellow workers into submission. Agreeing to murder every single man, woman, and child in the settlement of Grey's Bluffs so his employer, Gerard Bancroft, can seize the land, when Cyril learns the leader of the settlement is Abraham Foxman, an old war buddy who saved his life, Cyril just uses it as an excuse to charge Bancroft double. Planning on stealing all the gold he can before handing the land over, Cyril slaughters most of the settlement, personally tortures Abraham to death for not telling him the gold's location, and later threatens to torture Siobhan O'Clery, the lover of Abraham's daughter Esther, right in front of her if she doesn't tell him either. Lying that he'll let the survivors live if he's taken to the gold, Cyril plans on murdering his guides and then the rest of the survivors once he gets what he wants.
    • Gerard Bancroft is the cold-blooded co-owner of the Bancroft & Hughes Mining and Railroad Conglomerate and the unofficial head of Independence. Employing Cyril Redstone and his Blackhawks to carry out dirty deeds to keep his business running smoothly, Bancroft is introduced paying Cyril for murdering the unionizing workers at Bancroft's quarry. Despite having made an arrangement with Grey's Bluffs, Bancroft covets the valuable land the settlement's on, and hires Cyril and his Blackhawks to murder everyone in the settlement so Bancroft can seize the property. His actions resulting in the destruction of Grey's Bluffs, the deaths of the majority of its people, and the scattering of its few survivors, Bancroft views his absolute control over the region as the "natural order" and thinks human lives are worthless when compared to the expansion of his business.
  • Zapis Zbrodni ("Crime Record"): Michał Pilawski is a crime boss who has his doctors perform illegal experiments that involve either evisceration of young women or harvesting the organs of children. When a young woman named Karolina accidentally discovers children being experimented on and killed, Pilawski murders her despite her begging otherwise.
  • Avengers: The Extinction Key by Greg Keyes: Scorpio and Capricorn are the two most prominent members of the Zodiac, reimagined as ancient demons in this story. Wanting to bring about the end of the world, Scorpio and Capricorn possess human avatars and plan to use a ritual with the Zodiac key to bring their physical bodies to Earth and cause the apocalypse. After being foiled by Shaushka, the Bronze Age Sorcerer Supreme and her allies, Scorpio and Capricorn went into hiding and became advisors to ancient kings, sowing chaos across the Earth, waiting for another chance to destroy humanity. In modern times, Scorpio becomes the High Priest of the Zodiac, and Capricorn runs the Zodiac's business affairs. Scorpio leads the Zodiac in a quest to reclaim the key and complete the apocalyptic ritual, while Capricorn kidnaps Iron Man and Black Widow and has them mentally tortured, and uses his wealth to help set up the ritual.
  • Life in the Mad Dog Ward arc: Dr. Hope is the chief of the Pleasant Valley Mental Hospital, which he masquerades as an upstanding facility while truthfully using it for nefarious purposes. On the payroll of the Kingpin, Hope forcibly commits innocent, sane people to the hospital as a method of "disappearing" them on Kingpin's orders, drugging them into stupors and subjecting them to heinous conditions. Hope does this not only out of greed, but also so he can perform his own horrific experiments on the patients to agonizingly transform hundreds of them into raving lunatics that he can sell as killers to Kingpin. One of Hope's "successes" is the creation of Brainstorm, who is sicced onto innocent civilians as a test run by Hope.
  • Miles Morales: The Snatcher is an elitist and racist creep who enjoys targeting children. Using his power of psychic attacks, Snatcher painfully overrides the minds of dozens of kids to turn them into superpowered slaves that he sells on the Black Market to the highest bidder as Child Soldiers. Getting a sadistic kick from the pain he causes with his powers, the Snatcher fries the brains of any adults that try to stand up to him, and justifies his victim choice by noting their parents are just homeless or immigrant "trash." When Spider-Man and Captain America nearly defeat him, the Snatcher orders all of the children under his thrall to turn their guns on each other in a last-ditch effort to save his own skin.
  • Æon Flux: Oren Goodchild, evil brother of Chairman Trevor Goodchild, yearns to keep his grip over the city of Bregna permanent. Acting out as his brother's muscle as the two rule over the city as its dictators, Oren, upon realizing that Trevor desires order by shutting down the city's replication factor, tries to sabotage all of Trevor's efforts in order to keep the status quo, even creating the Grand Dreadnought against his wishes as a way to wage war against the Monican resistance. Declaring himself emperor after having Trevor assassinated, Oren commences his genocide campaign against the Monicans by laying waste to all of Bregna so that nobody can stop his eternal reign of terror.
  • From the Sun to the Moon: Oblivion is an alien being from Planet B96, who was recovered by the crew of Spaceship Nova and brought to Earth. Traumatizing the crew to the point that they needed help from a psychiatric hospital, Oblivion manipulated a scientist to free it, after which it massacred all staff inside the facility. Openly desiring to assimilate humanity, Oblivion possessed Soleil and then used it to taunt and mock her girlfriend Esmeray, after which it tried to trick her into killing Soleil, succeeding in one of the endings, after which it prepared to kill Esmeray.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#6941: Jun 11th 2023 at 3:18:54 PM

Btw if they aren't gotten this week that's fine, but just fyi I went through and purged most uses of the word "psychotic" in the main AniManga sandboxes...I left one or two where it sounded like victims of the villains were genuinely reduced to psychosis, but I either removed or substituted the word in most entries. It's a start to that cleaning up process [lol]

[down] I did with some but with others I figured it was worth just leaving it blank or using another word like "bloodthirsty" because psychopathic is used a lot [lol] And yep I'm working on the YMMV pages now.

Edited by Ravok on Jun 11th 2023 at 3:32:42 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#6942: Jun 11th 2023 at 3:27:29 PM

Just replace them with psychopathic? I see you did with some but not all.

Don't forget the YMMV as well.

[up]Cool. I'll swap the main pages tomorrow.

Edited by ACW on Jun 11th 2023 at 6:34:07 AM

Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#6943: Jun 11th 2023 at 4:01:33 PM

RE: ACW

I'd just use the latest version of a character's backstory for their entry in regards to retcons.

With the Captain America example, the bit thats being removed hadn't been canon for over a decade, so it's definitely safe to remove.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#6944: Jun 11th 2023 at 4:04:05 PM

Ah, that makes sense. So if, like, Apocalypse's backstory continues to hold up we may have to remove him?

[down]Cool. I've requested the replacement of Skull's writeup.

Edited by ACW on Jun 11th 2023 at 7:10:41 AM

Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#6945: Jun 11th 2023 at 4:05:35 PM

RE: ACW

If Apocalypse's backstory continues being referenced and treated as canon by later material, than yes, he may be worth a removal unless he subverts those traits later.

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#6946: Jun 11th 2023 at 4:28:29 PM

Apocalypse is likely to be back in the comics this week (X-Men Red (2022) #12), after a year or two's absence. There's a one-shot special focusing on him and his family a week or two later.

Probably worth waiting to see how they handle him before making any decisions.

Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#6948: Jun 12th 2023 at 7:30:15 AM

Are they to be released within a month?

No one else has expressed interest and I've got no issues there.

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#6949: Jun 12th 2023 at 7:44:57 AM

[up] Extreme Venomverse and Cult of Carnage: Misery are already being released, and Web of Carnage comes out on July 12, 2023.

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#6950: Jun 12th 2023 at 7:48:05 AM

Yeah you're good for all 3 then since it's the 12th.

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!

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