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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#6476: May 21st 2023 at 2:35:51 PM

So is Stuart Macher from Scream misusing the word as well?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#6477: May 21st 2023 at 2:36:09 PM

So wait it's just revealed he's pissed off that his immortality ticket is gone. Lol.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#6478: May 21st 2023 at 2:55:59 PM

Honestly, there are probably literally dozens, if not hundreds, maybe even THOUSANDS of examples misusing psychotic. Going forward we can keep that in mind, but...

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#6479: May 21st 2023 at 3:01:07 PM

Tbf their is like what dozens of us. If even If a few us change what we see. We could fix it in a week tops.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#6480: May 21st 2023 at 3:13:12 PM

I mean, if y'all want to, but don't forget the YMMV as well. Like, I'll keep an eye out, but I'm not going to actively search for them (though I may for my own).

EDIT: For Marvel lit, for my Carnage I changed psychotic to psychopathic, and "the Red Skull is loathed even by other villains for his psychotic obsession with world domination." became "...obsessive pursuit..."


Slight rewrite:
  • Elder Gods: Set is a Elder God and one of the first murderers in creation. Devouring his brother god Hyppus, Set became a demon, setting other Elder Gods against one another before fleeing the vengeance of his sister Gaea. Taking an interest in Earth, Set continually attempts genocide upon mammals so his chosen Serpent Men can dominate existence. Set promotes mass slaughter and sacrifice, repeatedly attempting to arrive in the world to devour all that live save his chosen, with his rites being to try to impregnate heroines with his spawn to gain access to the world.

To

  • Elder Gods: Set is one of the first murderers in creation. Devouring his brother god Hyppus, Set became a demon, setting other Elder Gods against one another before fleeing the vengeance of his sister Gaea. Taking an interest in Earth, Set continually attempts genocide upon mammals so his chosen Serpent Men can dominate existence. Set promotes mass slaughter and sacrifice, repeatedly attempting to arrive in the world to devour all that live save his chosen, with his rites being to try to impregnate heroines with his spawn to gain access to the world.

He's already stated to be an Elder God, and I moved Animalistic Abomination.

Edited by ACW on May 21st 2023 at 8:04:29 AM

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#6481: May 21st 2023 at 5:40:44 PM

On the subject of recent cuts, I'm not personally feeling comfortable listing AI!Mikado Sannoji due to the fact he fails the HS of the game. Kanade (the guitarist girl) is a minor antagonist and has a far higher bodycount and she is also in this fangame. It also doesn't help Mikado has full control over the KST while Kanade has practically the resources of a high school student, like Junko's resources. Let's compare, shall we:

Kanade Otonokoji, though seemingly sweet and shy, is the psychotic killer of Chapter 3. Mentally abusing her twin sister, Hibiki, since preschool in order to make the girl completely dependent on her, Kanade remorselessly murdered or crippled everyone who ever got close to her, from their pet dog, to the teacher that Hibiki had a crush on, to even their parents. In the Killing Game, Kanade puts Hibiki in a trance to control her and forces Hibiki to murder Setsuka Chiebukuro to stop their friendship from disrupting the brainwashing. Then, just before their execution, Kanade makes Hibiki conscious again just to arouse herself with the sight of her sister breaking down. She also burns Setsuka's note, which contained important information, solely out of spite at being found out as the culprit. Despite being wholly unconnected to Void, Kanade eclipses all of them, even the mastermind, in cruelty.

Yeah Mikado's bad but Kanade has implied to have murders in the 50s-100s (given how many people she killed in the flashbacks) compared to Mikado's AI who only killed like 6 teenagers, and 7 adults. Kanada is also not brainwashed or an AI which means she's just pure evil.

What does everyone think?

Edited by Klavice on May 21st 2023 at 5:41:21 AM

Iceaura39 from Where joy and happiness go to cry (Petty Master) Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
#6482: May 21st 2023 at 5:44:09 PM

Mikado does have one caveat, though, and it's that Kanade's been operating for much longer than he's even existed. Plus, his executions are rather brutal and sadistic.

It is I, the narrator, categorising addict and writer of books you haven't read.
Klavice (Elder Troper)
#6483: May 21st 2023 at 5:52:37 PM

Okay, but I'm still doing some housekeeping for Kanade's write up since AI!Mikado was approved.

This: Kanade Otonokoji, though seemingly sweet and shy, is the psychotic killer of Chapter 3. Mentally abusing her twin sister, Hibiki, since preschool in order to make the girl completely dependent on her, Kanade remorselessly murdered or crippled everyone who ever got close to her, from their pet dog, to the teacher that Hibiki had a crush on, to even their parents. In the Killing Game, Kanade puts Hibiki in a trance to control her and forces Hibiki to murder Setsuka Chiebukuro to stop their friendship from disrupting the brainwashing. Then, just before their execution, Kanade makes Hibiki conscious again just to arouse herself with the sight of her sister breaking down. She also burns Setsuka's note, which contained important information, solely out of spite at being found out as the culprit. Despite being wholly unconnected to Void, Kanade eclipses all of them, even the mastermind, in cruelty.

To this:

  • Super Danganronpa Another 2:

    • AI!Mikado

    • Kanade Otonokoji, though seemingly sweet and shy, is the Ax-Crazy killer of Chapter 3. Mentally abusing her twin sister, Hibiki, since preschool in order to make the girl completely dependent on her, Kanade remorselessly murdered or crippled everyone who ever got close to her, from their pet dog, to the teacher that Hibiki had a crush on, to even their parents. In the Killing Game, Kanade puts Hibiki in a trance to control her and forces Hibiki to murder Setsuka Chiebukuro to stop their friendship from disrupting the brainwashing. Then, just before their execution, Kanade makes Hibiki conscious again just to arouse herself with the sight of her sister breaking down. She also burns Setsuka's note, which contained important information, solely out of spite at being found out as the culprit. Despite being wholly unconnected to Void, Kanade eclipses all of them with exception of the mastermind, in cruelty.

Edited by Klavice on May 21st 2023 at 5:57:57 AM

Mr-ex777 Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#6484: May 21st 2023 at 6:13:32 PM

[up] x2 I mean Sadistic executions are a thing in Danganronpa standards, no?

Also unfair to compare him with Kanade since they're different villains.

I'm iffy on this since leaning on cut, if he kept it's for the same reasons why Decagrammaton would (and easily too unlike Mikado).

Iceaura39 from Where joy and happiness go to cry (Petty Master) Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
#6485: May 21st 2023 at 6:42:57 PM

Well, Mikado's executions stand out as particularly brutal. Like his execution of Emma, which has him send her flying through the air on a broomstick at high speeds, crash landing into an empty room, and then murdered by a gang of Monocrows so brutally that all we see at the end is the room completely splattered in blood.

While Mikado is more powerful than Kanade in the virtual world, this is undercut by him only being a threat within said virtual world, while Kanade was active in the real world, and people can only enter it if forced inside or if they enter voluntarily.

It is I, the narrator, categorising addict and writer of books you haven't read.
Mr-ex777 Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#6486: May 21st 2023 at 9:00:45 PM

Yeah but as far as I know Gundham and Teru's executions are not too far off, and the V3 executions, if they're still applicable are even worse. The AI-generated executions are incredible anyways.

Edited by Mr-ex777 on May 22nd 2023 at 12:01:24 AM

CrystallicWolf108 The Controversial Guy Since: Sep, 2021 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Controversial Guy
#6487: May 22nd 2023 at 12:23:37 AM

[up] Teruteru I get, but Gundham? He’s simply hit by a stampede and is dead in seconds, that’s not even that bad. Also, V3 is in a separate universe so it can’t be compared.

Also, I’m going to lean on a Keep for Mikado. Comparing him to Kanade isn’t fair, as Kanade has been operating since she was a child (and she says her kill count is about 60), while Mikado is an alter ego who’s barely even been around that long, and wracks up an incredible amount of damage within less time. And the deaths, especially the early on ones, are very brutal. Yuri is sliced up before being dropped to his death, Hajime is beaten and shredded, Kokoro gets slowly froze to death, and Emma was brutally murdered by horror creatures in her execution, to the point that she was left as a pile of gore. Not to mention, in chapter 5, he tries to drown Yoruko in alcohol, and Iroha is being used as a human paintbrush against a brick wall. Plus, I think Mikado reaches Kanade in sheer sadism, as he has many Kick the Dog moments, while Kanade only has one. Also, in the bad ending, Mikado escapes with divine luck, and I from what I see in the entry, has grown a love for murder, heavily implying he’s going to continue killing people.

Edited by CrystallicWolf108 on May 22nd 2023 at 8:24:00 PM

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#6488: May 22nd 2023 at 1:45:49 AM

Jane Got a Gun has this entry.

  • Even Evil Has Standards: Bishop denies having killed Jane's daughter Mary, and turns out to be telling the truth:
    John Bishop: I may be an outlaw, but I do not kill little children.

I tried to find the EP without success.

Iceaura39 from Where joy and happiness go to cry (Petty Master) Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
#6489: May 22nd 2023 at 3:01:44 AM

Yeah, in case it wasn't clear by now, my vote is also to keep Mikado.

It is I, the narrator, categorising addict and writer of books you haven't read.
Mr-ex777 Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#6490: May 22nd 2023 at 5:07:12 AM

[up] x2 I forgot which one it is but there's a Danganronpa 2 execution that's god-shit awful like Teru's.

Was it Mikan's?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#6491: May 22nd 2023 at 6:01:28 AM

[up][up][up]Think lighty has watched it. His proposer was k410ren by the way. PM him.

Edited by miraculous on May 22nd 2023 at 6:01:38 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#6492: May 22nd 2023 at 8:32:28 AM

For Marvel lit, for my Carnage I changed psychotic to psychopathic,
That works, since Cletus Kasady is a diagnosed sociopath in-universe.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#6493: May 22nd 2023 at 11:49:19 AM

Could this be rewritten. From Quills. It's odd sounding

  • Complete Monster: Dr. Royer-Collard, the "alienist" brought in to treat the Marquis de Sade, makes Sade look positively decent in contrast. During the course of the film, he subjects a number of innocent inmates to torture as part of his quackish "treatment", marries a teenage girl a third of his age and then rapes her, orders a woman flogged for helping the Marquis disseminate his work, drives his asylum's Good Shepherd resident priest to commit atrocities on the Marquis, and not only abandons an innocent woman to be raped and murdered by a lunatic, but ensures that no one else will stumble on the scene in time to save her.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#6494: May 22nd 2023 at 11:56:32 AM

I'll take care of it. Old one here

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#6495: May 22nd 2023 at 12:14:05 PM

So with the actual film version of Scarecrow/Crane—plus his part in Gotham Knight voiced by Corey Burton—being approved, wording saying these two versions are worse may need to be changed now.

From The Dark Knight Trilogy:

  • Complete Monster:
    • Unlike his more passive film counterpart, the novel version of Jonathan Crane, aka the Scarecrow, is presented as a terror-loving maniac. Starting out using several of his students as test subjects, driving them mad in the process, Crane allies with the League of Shadows in the present, creating and supplying them with Fear Gas so as to unleash it onto Gotham and drive the city to tear itself apart. Along the way, Crane performs more experiments in fear on his hapless patients at Arkham, orders the murder of a nosy attorney, and drives his partner, Carmine Falcone, insane to silence him. During the attack on Gotham, Crane led a prison riot, murdered a police officer, and tried to run down Rachel Dawes and a child she is protecting. Crane then becomes a drug dealer and kills a junkie as a test run for a lethal hallucinogen. In his final appearance, Crane takes a spot in Bane's conquered, anarchy-filled Gotham, presiding over a Kangaroo Court where everyone from corrupt politicians to innocent people are forced to walk across the icy river of Gotham, invariable leading to their deaths as they break through the ice, much to Crane's delight.

From Batman Begins in the folder for The Game:

I made no changes to either for the record. I'll leave those to ACW or the Tropers themselves.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on May 22nd 2023 at 12:14:41 PM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#6496: May 22nd 2023 at 12:53:13 PM

[up] The parts about the film version being passive and the game version being worse should be removed either way in my opinion.

The RWBY CM page Image Pickin is now discussing the caption if anyone wants to give their thoughts.

Edited by Bullman on May 22nd 2023 at 2:54:53 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#6497: May 22nd 2023 at 1:08:47 PM

I agree.

I'll put the Dark Knight Trilogy tree in the drafts when the day for the writeup arrives—it's already in the sandbox for DC Films. Will the writeup go to DC Animation too?

Here's the tree in the drafts for Deadpool though—also in the sandbox for Marvel Films as well:

  • Deadpool:
    • Deadpool (2016): Ajax, real name Francis Freeman, is the cold and detached leader of an operation that purports to create superheroes. Ajax uses his recruiter to lure in people with nothing to lose before he implants the potential for mutant genetics into them. However, to awaken the mutant gene, Ajax subjects them to hideous, continuous torture and experimentation to produce the necessary stress to awaken it. Wade Wilson himself is eventually placed in a chamber that alters air levels to constantly make him feel that he is asphyxiating. After this awakens Wade's mutant gene, Ajax comments he could fix Wade's ruined looks, but remarks that it would be no fun and shuts him back in the device out of sheer cruelty. When Wade escapes, Ajax impales him and leaves him to burn alive in the ruins of the lab, along with any other prisoners remaining. The superhero operation is also revealed to be a front: the victims are fitted with collars to turn them into slaves and sold to the highest bidder for the remainder of their lives. When Wade, now Deadpool, is hunting him, Ajax tries to lure the latter out by kidnapping his former girlfriend Vanessa and then locking her in the asphyxiation device right in front of Wade.
    • Deadpool 2: The Headmaster of the Essex Home for Mutant Rehabilitation is a deeply prejudiced zealot who runs his orphanage like a conversion therapy camp for mutant children. The Headmaster constantly tortures them as a means of trying to force out their abilities, having abused Russell Collins to the point of leaving scars on his neck. Russell's deep-seated anger and mistrust caused by all this risks resulting in him burning the Headmaster and the orphanage to the ground, killing all the other kids trapped inside too and becoming the supervillain Firefist.

6/1 marks five years since the original Deadpool 2 discussion by the way.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#6498: May 22nd 2023 at 3:41:29 PM

The discussion on this petered out but are people good with Star's edit to Joker's entry on the Resolved Items list here? I'm fine with it going up (though it should be moved to the definitely a CM section)

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#6500: May 22nd 2023 at 3:47:09 PM

Eh, I'm gonna be honest, I still think it's a special case - it's not just "he counts", it's "he counts even though he sometimes doesn't". It's weird and I think it warrants its own section even if the gist of the entry can be boiled down to "he counts".


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