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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#6351: May 19th 2023 at 8:32:39 AM

[up]That's pretty clumsily written and sounds more like a Hate Sink entry. Scrap it.

My position on Exiled Kang is that he used Janet and even if the camaraderie was genuine at first, his radical desire to either control or wipe out timelines was for the sake of his own A God Am I desires and she didn't really matter to him all that much if at all. I equate it to Ego maybe actually loving Meredith for real, but then brutally and uncaringly killing her anyway to guarantee he didn't second guess his own selfish interests. Similar to Mysterio kind of liking Peter, but willing to viciously kill his ass if he gets in the way too.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on May 19th 2023 at 8:34:27 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#6352: May 19th 2023 at 8:40:26 AM

Ego killed Meredith to remove the quality. Kang demonstrated clear attempts at altruism for gratitude. Not the same thing

ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
The Ultimate Lifeform
#6353: May 19th 2023 at 8:55:00 AM

[up][up][up] Definitely beyond saving. Rearrange every hole in it's face Bill!

[up] I disagree. In my head that was nothing more than Pragmatic Villainy. Kang saw how she could be genuinely useful to him so he saw no need to burn bridges, likely thinking that "I can make her see the right way later". The instant she truly turned against him that went straight out the window.

Edited by ForgoLight on May 19th 2023 at 8:56:54 AM

"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#6354: May 19th 2023 at 9:05:13 AM

Probably just wait for his arc to end because I doubt he's dead.

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#6355: May 19th 2023 at 9:07:06 AM

I mean with the revelations on Johnathon Majors I think his arc is gonna be changed a bit, though I think we should wait for official confirmation on that

I haven't seen Quantumania since I first saw it at theaters but since it's on Disney+ now I can rewatch it and see if I change my mind on whether Kang truly subverted that Pet the Dog moment or not

Edited by Agentofchaos on May 19th 2023 at 12:09:32 PM

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#6356: May 19th 2023 at 9:17:21 AM

Jonathan Majors is slated to be in Season 2 of Loki, but I think Disney's waiting to see if his recent legal issues affects that before taking action. The writer for Kang Dynasty is also no longer writing that movie. There could be either big or minor changes coming to the whole arc soon and it's hard to tell at this point in time.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#6357: May 19th 2023 at 9:20:40 AM

I agree on putting MCU Kang on the waitlist. He’ll most likely appear in the Kang Dynasty movie

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#6358: May 19th 2023 at 9:21:57 AM

And who knows, if Conqueror dosen’t make it maybe we get some other variant, there are a lot of them.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#6359: May 19th 2023 at 9:22:00 AM

Kang was offering to spare her timeline and nothing suggests he wasn’t gonna do so. If it’s reversed somehow later I’ll hear it, but for me right now he’s a 99 percenter,

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#6360: May 19th 2023 at 9:29:19 AM

I mean Scott helped him later and he went back on his word then.

Regardless of whichever side anyone falls on for the Exiled Kang having honor or not—and maybe he does, I was actually thinking of rewatching the movie today, it'll be something we decide later though. Even without the entire arc being far from done right now, the Jonathan Majors debacle could play a huge part in things changing on that front too—and either way, things are still developing on both fronts.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on May 19th 2023 at 9:31:01 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#6361: May 19th 2023 at 9:35:04 AM

Can we not have a drawn out discussion about a guy who doesn't keep yet?

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#6362: May 19th 2023 at 9:49:38 AM

Yeah. I admit we are just repeating ourselves at this point. And I admit myself culpable in that as well.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#6363: May 19th 2023 at 10:55:53 AM

Staying out of the Kang discussion. I will say let's keep him on the wait and see list.

I only got one response to this question, if we did it it be something this:

     Infinity Saga 
  • Red Skull to Mysterio.

     Multiverse Saga 
  • The Black Widow guy, What if duo, and High Evolutionary.

     TV Shows 
  • All of the tv shows that might or might not be canon.

Again I am not saying that it is necessary or even that we should do it just that it is a thought that I had and it seems a bit weird to have stuff like what if which is absolutely canon listed with tv shows that might not be canon depending on how the future goes. Plus it is done on other Pages for the franchise like the big bad one, the main page, and Marvel Cinematic Universe. Tobe fair we don't have many Multiverse Saga keepers yet and it might be best to wait.

Edited by Bullman on May 19th 2023 at 1:00:16 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#6364: May 19th 2023 at 11:05:44 AM

I don't mind that decision. Would we still keep the multiple films folder?

On a related note, should we get rid of the trees on the MCU page to organize it by release date like with the DCEU? If we don't do Bull's suggestion, then we'll be putting a phase 5 villain in the middle of the Infinity Saga entries with the Evolutionary; if we do go with Bull's, then the Thor tree still creates a precedent that would clash with the Guardians films being split up. The trees feel messy either way we do it, at least to me.

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#6365: May 19th 2023 at 11:09:53 AM

I kind of prefer the multiple films-singular films method for now.

Bow to the Prototype
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#6366: May 19th 2023 at 11:10:01 AM

[up][up] I don't we would keep a whole section. All of the villains in multiple films are from the Infinity Saga only. As for the trees I admit that I don't think they are needed as it seems or would weird to have MCU villains listed that came way later listed before others that were introduced first.

[up] You my idea for the folders would be this

Infinity Saga:

     Examples 
  • Multiple films
  • Single films

Multiverse Saga:

    Examples 

Non Saga Based Tv Shows

     Examples 

So the multiple films villains would still be first but it would list the keepers from each saga together and the dubiously canon stuff together but separate from the fully canon stuff.

Edited by Bullman on May 19th 2023 at 1:21:26 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#6367: May 19th 2023 at 11:27:33 AM

I think the way we got things now is pretty straightforward and it's not necessary to change it. Up to everyone else though if it ultimately does fall on changing it.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#6368: May 19th 2023 at 11:41:17 AM

I don't know if it is straight forward when you have to go through multiple dubiously canon TV shows to get an actual canon thing like what if or stiff like Hela to get to say Dormammu and Ego who came before her or if we keep the tree thing stuff like High Evolutionary to get to stuff that happened before him. It seems a bit cluttered in my opinion.

Edited by Bullman on May 19th 2023 at 1:42:39 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#6369: May 19th 2023 at 11:42:16 AM

Did we not give the Disney+ stuff their own section or was that just MB?

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#6370: May 19th 2023 at 11:45:16 AM

That was just MB but that would still be a bit cluttered in my opinion since only one Disney plus work has any CM and it'd still below the Agent of Shield, Netflix, and Cloak and Dagger who are at best one way canon and at worst no longer canon with the way things are shaping out.

Edited by Bullman on May 19th 2023 at 1:45:51 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#6371: May 19th 2023 at 11:46:30 AM

I say the keep movie section as is, I don't see an issue with it and changing it only adds complications like breaking up the Guardians tree.

As for the TV section I'd say give the Disney+ shows their own section then I remembered that we only have the 2 from What if, so wait for more on that

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#6372: May 19th 2023 at 11:50:39 AM

[up] Thor and Captain America are the only ones with trees. For now in a few days the Guardians will.

I think listing something considered part of the current saga under a bunch of stuff that might not be canon seems odd when other pages on this site don't do that. Though that could just be me and I can live with how it is though the trees still seem odd personally but I can live them.

Edited by Bullman on May 19th 2023 at 2:02:42 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#6373: May 19th 2023 at 12:55:46 PM

Since I just did the King of Worms on the other thread, I wanted to bring up an issue I had with Mechakara:

  • Mechakara is a robot from an Alternate Universe where Linkara's Robot Buddy Pollo turned evil, killed him, and robots overthrew humanity. His plans revolved around sending Linkara into a mental breakdown; and, when that fails, he captures him and plans to kill him slowly, simply because his death went too fast the first time around. While that would normally make him just another killer robot, he stands out when, after getting the magic MacGuffin that he came for, he decides instead to destroy all organic life in the multiverse. During the Silent Hill Dead/Alive videos, Mechakara slowly mind rapes Linkara into thinking he's the (actually long dead) man who tortured his son to create Linkara's Magic Gun and almost convinces him to kill himself. In To Boldly Flee, Mechakara passes himself off as Linkara and infiltrates the USS Exit Strategy, intending to kill the entire crew with the help of the forcibly assimilated Todd and Nostalgia Chick. Mechakara would later assimilate the crew of the Caelestis space station and drained the life force of one astronaut in an attempt to recharge the ship. Only working with others when his goals coincide with theirs and perfectly willing to kill them otherwise, Mechakara is fueled only by his hatred for Linkara and all organic life forms.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall the bolded part ever happening? I thought he just wanted to be able to harness magic so he could destroy the remaining human resistance on his world. I would change it to this.

  • Mechakara is a robot from an Alternate Universe where Linkara's Robot Buddy Pollo turned evil, killed him, and robots overthrew humanity. Arriving in this universe, Mechakara intends to steal Linkara's Magic Gun so he can harness the power of magic and crush the remaining resistance on his world. His plans revolved around sending Linkara into a mental breakdown; and, when that fails, he captures him and plans to kill him slowly, simply because his death went too fast the first time around. During the Silent Hill Dead/Alive videos, Mechakara slowly Mind Rapes Linkara into thinking he's the long dead man who tortured his son to create the Magic Gun and almost convinces him to kill himself. In To Boldly Flee, Mechakara passes himself off as Linkara and infiltrates the USS Exit Strategy, intending to kill the entire crew with the help of the forcibly assimilated Todd and Nostalgia Chick. Mechakara would later assimilate the crew of the Caelestis space station and drained the life force of one astronaut in an attempt to recharge the ship. Only working with others when his goals coincide with theirs and perfectly willing to kill them otherwise, Mechakara is fueled only by his hatred for Linkara and all organic life forms.

Also chopping the Anti-Hero pothole, since I'm not sure how that's relevant.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#6374: May 19th 2023 at 1:32:24 PM

Emerald: I moved the rewrite to the bottom; mind setting up a tree that included a placeholder for the King?

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#6375: May 19th 2023 at 1:33:09 PM

I'm in favor of keeping the MCU page as is for now. I think it's pretty easy to navigate and understand.


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