Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread
.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here
) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread
.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread
, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread
. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Cut the fanworks page, good rewrite Beast, though I'd stick to referring to the protagonist/narrator as he is in the official work. I know we try to avoid fanspeak in writeups, like when I took the unknown man's moniker out of his.
1. I never got the “No Holding Back” criteria, and I’m even starting to think it may be out of date. With that said, we have quite a few candidates who try to stop a worse threat out of pragmatism. A CM may want to cause harm to the world, but not destroy it outright, especially if if it gets in the way of their plans.
2. You think you could word that Nazi thing a little better ? But the short of it is no, such convictions are not mitigating.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."![]()
About that.
- A Complete Monster can still have shades of Pragmatic Villainy that don't affect the scope of their actions. A CM isn't always stupid and irrational, with some even fighting other Complete Monsters.
- Any motive that isn't good and/or justified by the story count, allowing Social Darwinists to qualify despite seemingly wanting people to grow stronger. There's also something called Secretly Selfish.
Edited by Braz on Apr 20th 2023 at 6:43:11 AM
Us tropers stick together.Yeah, Pragmatic Villainy isn't a disqualifier; usually at least—I think there was a Star Wars one we cut for being TOO pragmatic and thus not heinous compared to others (I wanna say Darth Bane??).
I thought that was more that we expect that certain archetypes like an Evil Overlord or Evil Sorc ror or demon to do more than kill a few people. So we'll that Could list you as a random human bad guy in a really low key work it's not going to cut it if your high tier. So I feel like it should be rewritten to be more like that.
Edit:
I sent you a PM about it.
Edited by miraculous on Apr 20th 2023 at 3:03:30 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Maybe, rewrite it to something like this?
- They are as bad as they can be given their resources.
I admit that rewrite isn't the best and I'm open to ideas, but the folder as is doesn't convey it's point well enough.
Did it get thumped because it got read as saying Nazis weren't that bad or something? My whole point is Nazis are horrible and absolutely should qualify, but if I was reading it correctly by some of the standards they might not, and if they didn't qualify that should be fixed.
Edited by molokai198 on Apr 20th 2023 at 6:10:23 AM
To me 'holding back' should only mainly be an issue in a case of like, if there's competition.
For the most part I think if a villain manages to pass baseline with some horrible deeds but like, hypothetically could maybe do worse given their power? I don't think that's a big issue unless there are worse villains at lower tiers. The example Star gives with 'If a lone Serial Killer manages to do worse then this more powerful person' is a good one.
Bow to the PrototypeI said this before; the Administrivia page is in dire need of a revision. I'll just link back to my prior suggestions.
@STARCRUSHER99 Your rewrite looks fine to me!
Edited by ShootingStar7X on Apr 20th 2023 at 3:52:53 AM
Otherwise known as SolemnStormcloud.Like obviously resources shouldn’t be a “Card” but what I also meant was that “No Holding Back” felt out dated because, as with resources, not every villain is gonna throw every punch they have, especially if pragmatism for their goals get in their way.
If a Corporate mastermind with access to WMD's plans on starting a War for Fun and Profit, starts a refugee crisis and gets about a million people killed without using these WMD's ? Then in my book, he doesn’t need to attempt nuclear Armageddon to qualify.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."I found a writeup which needs a little touching up.
Current:
- The Torturer (2005): Hector Moscale tortures and kills numerous women to create snuff films to make himself money. His methods include dripping boiling oil on women, electrocuting them, and using a blowtorch to cauterize their wounds. Hector keeps one woman locked up in a cramped wooden compartment outside his house, and has her tortured for days. Her friend, Ginette Cazonni, finds her just in time to see her die from her wounds. Hector murders his family servant, Cathlene, when she discovers what he does. Hector captures Ginette and locks her in a room slowly filling with water to try and drown her, and when his stepson, Alex, refuses to take part in his crimes, Hector tries to kill him. Alex and Ginette are saved when Hector's wife fatally stabs him to rescue them, but before dying, Hector stabs and kills her as well.
- The Torturer (2005): Hector Moscale tortures numerous women to death to create snuff films to make himself money, with his cruel methods including dripping hot oil, electrocution, and cauterization by blow torch. Having kept a friend of Ginette Cazoni locked up in a cramped wooden compartment outside his house, and tortured her for days, Hector's abuse is shown to be harsh enough that Ginnette arrives too late to save her friend. After murdering his family servant, Cathlene, when she discovers what he does, Hector captures Ginette and locks her in a room slowly filling with water to try and drown her. When his stepson, Alex, refuses to take part in his crimes, Hector tries to kill him. To retaliate against his wife stabbing him to rescue Alex and Ginette, Hector stabs and kills her as well before he dies.
I hope nobody objects.
Speaking of Web Serial Novels, for The Day I Was Forced To Become A Hitman, can we not call him "the unnamed protagonist"? He has an alias. He refers to himself as "Tyler". I don't care if it's not his real name, I think that if a character is referred to by even an alias in the story, that't what they should be called. Nobody calls Harry Roat "the unidentified bandit", even though Harry Roat is apparently not his real name. I don't know why we're ignoring the fact Tyler even has an alias.
Unless you want Roat's writeup to look like this:
- Complete Monster: The unidentified bandit is an ice-cold sociopath out to find a doll filled with heroin, which has ended up in the possession of a blind woman named Susy Hendrix. The bandit romances and kills a woman, then brings her two exes in and sets them up so they'll be forced to work for him. He then makes Susy think that her husband's an adulterer and uses his partners to psychologically torture her and make her afraid to leave her own home. The bandit happily murders his way through anyone in the path, and when his unwilling partners attempt to finally be rid of him, the bandit disposes of them before they can lay a hand on him. The bandit then spends the climax of the film psychologically torturing Susy before trying to murder her. Even at the end, Susy realizes the money is simply an excuse: the bandit is a natural sadist who enjoys evil for the sake of evil.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 20th 2023 at 12:11:45 PM

Web Serial Novels. That’s how the story originated.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."