Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread
.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here
) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread
.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread
, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread
. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
I can do a rewatch of the movie today. Though as I recall, she brings up her brother as a justification for her genocide against the fairies, but after Aurora accuses her of lying, Ingrith doesn’t argue further and from then on admits to just being a power hungry sadist.
Given that Ingrith never expresses love, or show any grief for her brother, the movie seems to present his death as a Dog-Kicking Excuse if anything.
Again, I can do a rewatch today to be sure.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."Believe me, the movie makes it pretty clear that Ingrith's actual motives are power and fear mongering - as I recall, Aurora accusing Ingrith of lying about her brother is in the lines of “That has fuck all to do with why you’re doing this.” Which Ingrith immediately concedes too.
As far as her brother, or any potential care goes, the movie doesn’t care to dive into her brothers death, or existence, beyond Ingrith using his supposed death as a Dog-Kicking Excuse. One she doesn’t stick too.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."If its ok, I'm going to add IDW Crystal Ball's entry to the "Crossovers with G.I. Joe" section on the Transformers page because quite a few of his actions are from the crossover appearances.
I haven't watched the film, but I checked the scene
and this is the dialogue between Aurora and Ingrith (I hope this is helpful):
Aurora: I don't believe that.
Ingrith: Our people became fearful. They overthrew my father. The land fell into chaos. I was cast out. Forced by fate into marriage with King John of Ulstead. Another weak king speaking of tolerance and civility. And now, my own son... corrupted with visions of harmony. But peace will not be our downfall. Now lock her up. A war is coming.
Edited by WatTambor on Apr 1st 2023 at 7:41:25 PM
Thank you for posting Wat, gonna have to maintain a cut with it spelled out. She might use it as justification for pre-existing bigotry but she mentions an ideal she and her brother held onto, I really can't see there not being some genuine care there, even if he's only mentioned the once.
Okay, watching it myself I'm feeling quite strongly about removing her. She again speaks of her brother as someone she shared ideals with and while Aurora says she doesn't believe "That" she continues on and laments her father being overthrown and being put into an unhappy marriage. I'm sorry but I think she's got a loved one.
Edited by 43110 on Apr 1st 2023 at 12:46:20 PM
With that whole scene played out feel like Ingrith is a cut. It really does sound like Ingrith believes she is speaking the truth.
It's way too vague on what Aurora is referring to by "that", she could have been referring to refusing to believe the fairies were mindless savages or that they were murderous. But there isn't any clear indication she was doubting the existence of Ingrith's brother.
Edited by Snowy66 on Apr 1st 2023 at 9:55:33 AM
I don't see it as genuine at all. Her brother and her had a camaraderie of hatred and that's it. She also resented and deemed her father weak for wanting peace and only speaks of him in those terms—especially when comparing him to the "weak" husband she just banished to an indefinite coma.
Whether or not either of them were actually killed by the fairies doesn't matter to Ingrith. What matters is it was proof to her that they should stand their guard and kill them all. It's not in any way shape or form Revenge Before Reason or an FE, it's a highly discriminatory wretch plotting genocide under the flimsiest of pretenses.
She's a Fantastic Racist who is jealous of the Moors and wants to take from them and destroy them as a means of assuring humans remain the stronger and more dominant ones. Maintaining my STRONG
to keeping her.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Apr 1st 2023 at 10:01:13 AM
I am not sure how I feel about Ingrith, so I am officially abstaining, but something which should be pointed out is that she calls her brother's killers "those savages... creatures who could barely grunt, let alone engage in talks" and she insults them like that just before she mentions they killed her brother. That does indicate some level of anger at what they have done to him, but like I said, I am abstaining because I feel this is one of those cases where the creators intended to give their villain a redeeming quality but it's done in such a vague way that I am not sure if it's enough to be disqualifying by our standards.
Edited by WatTambor on Apr 1st 2023 at 8:04:09 PM
If she's cut, I'll accept it. I'm pretty firm on what I think it means though and maintaining my position. His being her brother is incidental and the only thing between them is the mutual Fantastic Racism.
The Kalypso comparison wasn't really apt because she maintains the position that her actions are for her father. Ingrith always had that hate in her heart and it's presented as her true motivation.
I'll give others the chance to speak now. I don't want to dominate the conversation.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Apr 1st 2023 at 10:30:23 AM
Yeah, gotta say Cut to Ingrith, even if Aurora thinks she's lying about something I'm not seeing anything to specifically indicate she's making up her motive about wanting revenge for her brother. It's way too specific a motive that isn't given near enough in-universe rebuttal for me to feel that we're meant to come away from the film thinking "she didn't have a brother, she just made him up".
Edited by Ravok on Apr 1st 2023 at 11:05:35 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Not saying she made her brother up, I'm saying she's not motivated by what happened to him and it's incidental. She doesn't talk about him like someone who wants revenge. The hatred for the Moors already existed and was shared by him—with that being the only context given of their "relationship", so it's the same as the film versions of Ozai and Zhao both sharing genocidal goals and working with each other, but not actually having a personal relationship.
If that was the case, Ozai saying that the Siege of the North failed and Zhao was killed in battle would be redemptive and it's clearly not. It's also like Strannix and Krill seeming to get along, but just mutually enjoying their genocidal actions and goals.
While I know I said I'd shut up, I feel this stuff still needs to be addressed. ~Beast, what say you?
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Apr 1st 2023 at 12:10:41 PM

I'm going to ask again, is it specifically stated she's lying about having a brother? If she's out for genocide of fairies and open about doing so, what reason does she have to fabricate a person? "You're lying" is far too general for me to take that as a callout to that particular part of her story.