Complete Monster Cleanup

I know Ordeaux outside this wiki, and they recently talked to me, so probably?

I'm not gonna bother them if they don't want to.

Yes he is

With Razvan going up, can someone rewrite this?

• Dragonheart: At the film's start, Einon seems a youth in need of guidance by his wise mentor, but it is revealed that any honor Einon has is just a front to learn swordsmanship from Sir Bowen. After Einon finds his dying father, he just tries to wrench the crown out of the man's hands, showing what he will become. When mortally wounded, Einon is saved only when a dragon shares his heart with him, linking their lives. As King, Einon taxes and works the people without mercy and orders a man's eyes put out with hot pokers before casually killing him. Einon tries to rape that man's daughter later and when his mother tries to kill the dragon to stop Einon, Einon kills her with no remorse. While Bowen initially blames the dragon for Einon's change, it turns out Einon was always a monster and the dragon shared his heart to try to change his nature.

Uh this maybe

• King Einon is a ruthless tyrant. After Einon finds his dying father, he just tries to wrench the crown out of the man's hands, showing what he will become. When mortally wounded, Einon is saved only when a dragon shares his heart with him, linking their lives. As King, Einon taxes and works the people without mercy and has an entire army of people enslaved and tortured over ten years to build his castle. Einon is a sadist and enjoys drawing things out of which is shown by him ordering a man's eyes put out with hot pokers before casually killing him. Einon tries to rape that man's daughter later and when his mother tries to kill the dragon to stop Einon, Einon kills her with no remorse. While Bowen initially blames the dragon for Einon's change, it turns out Einon was always a monster and the dragon shared his heart to try to change his nature.

Regarding this one: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=16706336400A42573900&page=216#comment-5392

That was my edit. I was a tad hasty about changing it up. Sorry.

That said, there are a couple of errors with the entry in its current state. Firstly, the character Mahrez's name is misspelled as "Mehraz", and there's a part describing why Pardis III killed him. It incorrectly says "only out of spite for Ringbearer being more popular than him" when it should say "only out of spite for Mahrez being more popular than him". The Chosen One wasn't the beloved general in Edoras; Mahrez was. The parts after that are fine.

Just thought I'd bring that up so I don't end up causing an Edit War.

Got a question about this candidate.

• The Witches: The Grand High Witch is the ruler of the child-hating witches, and the most malevolent of them all. A vicious demon with a propensity for abusing and murdering her own underlings, the Grand High Witch has spent decades teaching her followers ways to dispose of as many children as possible. Unsatisfied with her followers' progress, the Grand High Witch schemes to wipe out every child in England by utilizing a potion to transform them into mice, then watch as they are killed by their own oblivious parents and teachers. Demonstrating this on one hapless boy, the Grand High Witch follows this up by kidnapping the main character and inflicting upon him the same fate. With a cruelty unmatched by her underlings, the Grand High Witch instills terror in everyone who knows of her, friend and foe alike.

Now heinousness? Not an issue. Redeeming qualities? HAHAHAHA

My possible issue is, aren't witches an Always Chaotic Evil race of Child Haters? As in they primary target children because they despise them yet don't really bother with adults? IIRC the beginning monologue in the book goes into great depth on how horrid the witch race is and how they always are trying to creatively kill children.

This is purely for the book version as the 1990 one, there's a good witch in it I think? Not seen the 2020 so can't comment there.

She was considered the worst of her kind.

My concern isn't about her heinousness it was about the nature of witches in general being a possible problem.

Based on my knowledge of the book—never read it, the Grand High Witch is the driving force behind the actions all the witches take and therefore, is responsible for their atrocities. I'm guessing nothing comes up insisting a witch has to be evil. That would mean she still counts because it's clearly a choice in that case.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 31st 2023 at 6:22:17 AM

Yh but IIRC after the GHW book demise, a new one rises up which the protagonists plan to kill before trying to wipe out all witches so save children.

I think by loosened agency rules in recent years she's fine, we really like to have it spelled out to us that a character is Made of Evil or has no moral agency before chalking them up as a cut for it; Always Chaotic Evil as a concept is no longer grounds to cut on its own unless the work goes out of its way to establish that the beings are stuck being evil, and AFAIK the witches aren't given such a close inspection of their agency or lack thereof. So the GHW should be fine!

Edited by Ravok on Mar 31st 2023 at 6:41:13 AM

I know the goblins from Goblin Slayer are a good example where moral agency was deemed to be compromised. Of course, individual opinion on agency can be different between people. I still personally don't think Tolkien orcs have agency, at least not in the books, but I'm sure many would disagree with me there.

Keep Lee. We have plenty of CM who count by being uncaring about their own actions.

In the book, do any of the witches display humanizing qualities (say, loyalty or pets and such)?

Edited by Purgatoryisof2 on Mar 31st 2023 at 11:57:53 AM

I'm not really sure it's a problem. Nothing indicates Witches lack agency at all, they just find children disgusting.

The Grand High Witch is, to put it simply, a ferocious tyrant who violates any uniform standards they have. The idea of "Getting Fried" is horrific to the witches and while most witches are content to take a child a week, the GHW ramps up her scheme of "murder every kid in the country"

A few things to note about Einon:

The peasants he enslaved were the rebels who killed his father, and the man he'd had blinded and then casually "released" after 12 years of forced labor was the rebel leader. The young woman he tried to rape, Kara, was the girl who wounded his heart (by accident) during the peasant rebellion.

Arawn: Drafts please.

I'm fine with the Pardis expansion if everyone else is.

Alright so, it's been 2 weeks since Mr. Hopp's Playhouse 3's release, so I think it's time the Entity's entry gets rewritten.

Here's the current entry:

• Mr. Hopp's Playhouse and Mr. Hopp's Playhouse 2 prequel: The Entity is the true villain of the series. The former Guardian of Hope before being banished to the Underworld because of wrongdoings, the Entity gives magical symbols to a young girl named Isabelle, leading to her death and transformation. Years later, the Entity targets an orphan named Esther, having Isabelle infiltrate among the kids under the fake identity of "Dee" and tormenting Esther in her dreams, using plushies like Mr. Hopp as its avatars. Kidnapping the orphanage and literally dragging the orphans off to Hell, the Entity tries to break down Esther psychologically to have her join it. After being apparently defeated for good, the Entity returns years later to torment an elderly Esther, and has her give Mr. Hopp to her own granddaughter Ruby. One night the Entity kills Ruby's parents and torments the girl in the same way it did with her grandmother, going as far as pretending to be killed when Ruby uses a slingshot against it, to then trick her through an illusion of Esther and reappear or mimicking the voice of her parents. Sadistic and manipulative, the Entity seems to see all the suffering it causes as nothing more than a game.

• Mr. Hopp's Playhouse series: The Entity is the ultimate evil of the series. The former Guardian of Hope before being banished to the Underworld because of wrongdoings, the Entity stole the six medallions that kept balance between the realms and used them to create three loyal servants that'd help him in his harvest of souls (seemingly having a preference for the young). During one of his harvests, the Entity gave the Six to a young girl named Isabelle, leading to her death and transformation. Years later, he tormented a pregnant woman named Faith in her dreams and became obsessed with the latter's daughter - Esther - due to her pure soul, and attempted to have her join him by psychologically breaking her down, even going as far literally dragging everyone else in Esther's orphanage off to Hell. After being apparently defeated for good, the Entity returns years later to torment an elderly Esther, and has her give one of his servants - Mr. Hopp - to her own granddaughter Ruby before trapping Esther's soul in the Underworld. After Mr. Hopp fails to kill Ruby like her parents, the Entity has Ruby taken into the Underworld, where he attempts to have both her and Esther (who in the meantime has been freed by Ruby) killed by his servants and then later manipulating Ruby into turning against her grandmother, only to attack the poor girl when she betrays him in the third game's Golden Ending.

Edited by CapitanoNox on Apr 1st 2023 at 5:38:53 PM

I see this unapproved entry at YMMV.Blake And Mortimer

• The Atlantis Enigma: Magon does not even consider the number of his compatriots who will die in his coup, and calmly considers the elimination of the Barbarians who helped him once they have lost any usefulness. And just as calmly plans to conquer the surface of Earth with another genocide as a result.

It's been a while since I read it bu I don't remember that Magon's plan entailed genocide.

Works. I'd just make it "in the third game's Golden Ending".

Edited by ACW on Apr 1st 2023 at 7:59:10 AM

Having brought this up yesterday, I would like to discuss Ingrith some more. The EP stated she may have been lying about the whole thing but "I'm trying to commit genocide of fairies because my brother was killed by one" is imo a very specific, strange line to make up when a villain is open about their evil plot. It may be a case of Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse and she may not go on and on about how close her and her brother were but I think a fair bit can be inferred when she states her motive and we know she's willing to wipe out an entire race for revenge. Yes she sounds like a vile baddie but I don't see anything to actually indicate she lied about her brother's existence and I feel her plan being motivated by her death indicates care way too strongly for me to be comfortable keeping here.

I'm personally a keep there. If it's brought up exactly once when trying to justify herself and the idea she's being dishonest about the details is directly brought up? I do not think it's enough to be mitigating personally.

@Silverblade2 I don't remember either. I'll need to recheck.

Haven’t seen the movie, but Lean keep. Like Snoke says it is only brought up in her discusion with Aurora, person to whom she would definetely need to Lie to convice her of her genocidal agenda and Aurora herself flat out dissmishes it as the lie.