Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Seems like a cut. Lemme ping ~G Editor, as I think that was his.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
- Andrei Chikatilo's entry was removed illegally.
Pm'd the offender.
Edited by MasterJoseph on Mar 28th 2023 at 7:24:06 AM
IPP Wick Check created.
It’s been a long time since I EP Jia Saidao. I never really put much thought into that when Ep’d the guy as at the time I thought that he merely seemed upset about his concubine betrayed him and (he did mention that he loved her though he doesn’t l even look at her even when she kills herself). Again it was a long time ago (I ep’d Jia 2016) and I have made a definite effort to be sure I got all my facts straight before I EP my candidates (as you may notice that’s why some of my EP’s recently have been long). But if Jia shedding tears about it all does show he cared about her in some level, then sure I’m fine with him getting cut
Edited by G-Editor on Mar 28th 2023 at 12:44:33 PM
I would like to propose a removal based on updated info, regarding Lee from the World Legacy storyline in the Yu-Gi-Oh! page.
It was kind of ambiguous given the almost poetic way in which the Valuable Book guides are written, but the Master Duel solo mode confirms that she was merely acting on obsessive curiosity and not malice. While her actions were evil, she was just acting in the pursuit of truth. So I don't think she qualifies as a complete monster given that the storyline wants you to pity her.
Edited by Edgar81539 on Mar 28th 2023 at 11:49:25 AM
Goku Black
Cut Lee.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Thing is though, acting out of curiosity doesn't mean she's not a CM.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Is there anything saying she didn't mean for all that bad stuff to happen?
—signature not found—
I mean, if her motivation is played for sympathy by the story itself, it should be enough to disqualify her. But I would like to hear more about that before I vote.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Does it come off as sympathetic is the bigger question. Remember, Unintentionally Unsympathetic is a thing (hello Ahmanet).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I'm posting everything referring to Lee as worded in Master Duel. The story at this point doesn't treat her as an irredeemable monster, but rather as a an obsessive person that went too far in her pursuit of the truth.
The story even asks if maybe this was inevitable as a result of how society had progressed when Lee came to know about the key.
In fact Auram doesn't even attempt to punish the remains of her consciousness after knowing how this all happened. He simply lets her vanish.
You can check all this in the video starting at the 15:50 mark.
Showtime!
Cut Jia, but I don't see Lee's motives as particularly disqualifying
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Cut Jia.
This one has been bothering me for some time and I probably want everyone's opinion on this character from Xenoblade Chronicles. If you don't know who I am concerned about its Mumkhar aka Metal Face. IDK if it will cause controversy but here is my opinion of the matter.
- Originally a slimy, cowardly weasel of a man, Mumkhar ends up becoming something far worse entirely. After smugly leaving his close friends Dunban and Dickson to die on the battlefield, he is captured by the robotic Mechon and turned into one of their own, and willingly betrays his people by throwing in his lot with the Mechon and aiding them in their conquest. Going by the name of Metal Face, he leads a squad of Mechon in an attack on Colony 9, slaughters scores of people, and personally murders Dunban's sister Fiora, all out of hatred, envy, and spite towards the man, and gleefully brags about it to Shulk, her Love Interest. Later on, he leads an assault on Eryth Sea, which ends with him killing Sorean, the emperor of the High Entia. After his final defeat at the hands of Shulk and company, he doesn't hesitate to try to murder them all after they decide to spare his life. Fueled entirely by spite and cruelty, Metal Face cements his status as one of the party's most hated enemies.
It may not look like an issue to you but there is one thing I should talk about for Mumkhar that's been bugging me the wrong way and that is the insane standard of Xenoblade. The reason why I want to discuss the standard is that I think we really need to seriously consider if he fails the standard or not.
D from Xenoblade 3 is literally Metal Face but worse, in both crimes and looks. Even before he became a Counel, D already killed untold numbers of people including child soldiers and his own men even slaughtering his own base. This is pretty much already worse than Metal Face who needed the Mechon body, army, and backing of another villain to stand out but D is even worse without that when it comes to the issue and his crimes as a Counsel are even worse somehow.
I know what you thinking "Umm doesn't Counel D has high resources?" that is true. Here's the thing that is the main problem D was already doing worse than Metal Face before becoming a Counsel himself and D was literally just a dude with claws which is not a good enough resource for D. D is pretty much Metal Face but on cracks for deeds, if you think about it since he was pretty much committing worse crimes even before being a Counsel. Meanwhile, Metal Face needs the backing of another villain to stand out. All he did on his own when he was human was ditch his friends during the battle. That's literally it.
Meanwhile, D was already murdering scores of people including his own Allies, and collecting their heads as trophies and that was literally just when he was human. Those victims pretty much include child soldiers and his own men even slaughtering his own base. All of them were very brutal btw.
Mostly bringing him up considering Dickson was removed for the same reason (kinda) and his sympathetic death. So I want to hear your thoughts about Metal Face. Do you think he fails and if there is a reason for both what was it?
Edited by Echidna on Mar 29th 2023 at 12:52:27 PM
Cut Mumkhar. He fails to D even before he becomes a counsel. All Mumkar did while human was leave Dunban and co to die. D was already killing scores of people. Metal Face needed to backing of other villains to even reach that level
Classy, Refined, Unstable
I remember Mumkar being brought up as a concern for a cut a bit after the Xeno 3 candidates were up and people think he just scraped keeping.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
A nice swimmer
I brought it up too later on and it got rejected.
Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice.
RIP Toriyama
I'm still good with keeping Mumkhar, he's from an entirely different setting and what he gets up to is pretty damn nasty overall, I can't say "a quick flashback of D showing how he's always been a serial killer" should really disqualify Mumkhar's "The Heavy of the first game who is behind tons of brutality", myself.
But on the subject since Joseph brought it up? I do think Chikatilo needs cutting.
- Citizen X: Andrei Chikatilo is a Serial Rapist and Serial Killer who takes full advantage of the broken Soviet system in order to get away with murder. A failure as a husband, father, and employee, Chikatilo finds success as the USSR's most prolific serial criminal after being fired from his teaching job for molesting a teenage girl. Lurking at train stations, Chikatilo convinces the very old, the very young, and the mentally handicapped to accompany him into the woods, where he alternately rapes and murders or murders and rapes them, typically bludgeoning the victims unconscious and then stabbing them dozens of times. Escaping justice due to his Communist Party connections and the incompetency of the state investigators, Chikatilo kills 52 people before being arrested for the final time.
Chikatilo, bluntly, has a complete mental breakdown at the end of the film when he's confronted with his crimes. When his crimes are being read back to him he starts hyperventilating, then shedding tears, then openly sobbing as he recounts what he did. The whole film presents him as...not quite "all there", but the final scene really pushes it home that the dude is mentally unstable beyond the pale of counting here and he completely breaks down into crying when he's confronted with his actions.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Cut Chikatilo
Edited by Echidna on Mar 29th 2023 at 2:13:24 PM
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Weak keep for Mumkhar.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Chika though.
Edited by MasterJoseph on Mar 29th 2023 at 10:19:44 AM
IPP Wick Check created.
Keep Mumkhar, cut Chikatilo.
The wifi here sucks
Keep Lee, the screenshots say that what she did was still "nothing short of evil" even if she didn't act out of malice.
Keep Mukmar and cut Chikatilo
Edited by papyru30 on Mar 29th 2023 at 12:40:55 PM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Goku Black
Keep mumkhar. I'll absatin on Lee
Cut Chitaliko.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
abstain on mumkar but cut Chikatilo
Keep mumkar; Cut Chikatilo
The Draftsman of Doom
That's pretty damning, slash Jia
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