Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread
.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here
) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread
.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread
, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread
. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
I'll say keep Lanksy and Geil, but how many times has Geil come up? If this is only the 2nd time he's not worth adding to the list yet
"We'll meet again" | 🏳️⚧️I think Lanksy can stay and I think Geil is good to just be accepted to be kept but Wrong do please be mindful about re-doing discussions without new information, this thread works by consensus and we do need to be respectful of that. I can recall the Ace Attorney villain receiving two effort posts and don't remember the second positing much new info as opposed to rephrasing old arguments. I don't think comments need to be deleted but it is something I'll ask be kept in mind.
From my Geil post i apologize. But the Attorney candidate was a little bit more split than that, but i recognize that it wasn't enough for an approval, and i did add a bit more of new info on that one. Either way, i won't post them both again, if i can.
Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice. (also i'm fluid now)@Gentle Inquirer: He doesn't need a rewrite, but yeah, just change "hundreds of Morituri" to "hundreds of personnel in the Morituri base." The attack was spearheaded by Thundercrush, but only after the Inquirer deliberately manipulated into doing it so (as mentioned) pettily undermine his own war effort for the sake of a political rivalry.
The entry currently on the YMMV page works perfectly.
Keep Geil and Lansky.
Edited by Scraggle on Mar 21st 2023 at 6:49:56 AM
So last night Lighty inadvertently reminded me that my writeup for Big Daddy Love Lord needs some fine-tuning. Cause boy, it reeks of 2018 clunkiness.
OG: Big Daddy Love Lord is an uncaring, misogynistic pimp who has raiders kidnap women of various ages to be used as strippers and sex slaves for his club Love Town, selling them once he loses interest in them. Putting shock collars on his women, he shocks them to keep them in line. Kidnapping a young Rosie and having her parents murdered, he sells her to the Drug Lord after he grew bored of her.
New: Big Daddy Love Lord is selfish, misogynistic pimp who runs Love Town as his own personal strip club. Having raiders kidnap women of various ages to act as his strippers and slaves, Big Daddy puts shock collars on them to keep them in line, while also frequently selling his captives when he loses interest in them.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Mar 22nd 2023 at 11:06:10 AM
It's Spooky Month!
to The Lady, the Empress Lionstone XIV and Showa Ghidorah rewrites, and to changing the last sentence of Vitalis Benevent's entry.
to rewriting the Vexille example, and I like 43110's draft for it.
I think the Big Daddy Love Lord OG entry is better the way it is, to be honest. At the least, I recommend keeping the juicy detail about him murdering Rosie's parents.
I'd like to propose some new changes to existing entries. Changes are in bold, reasons for the changes are in the note tags.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Fire Lord Ozai is the power-hungry tyrant of the Fire Nation seeking to wipe out all resistance to his rule, even children. He obtains the throne through manipulating his wife Ursa to help him murder his own father, before he banishes her on the pain of death without letting her see her children again. Ozai controls all aspects of his family's life, limiting their freedoms and encouraging their worst traits just to please him: he punishes his son whenever the latter shows kindness or mercy, going as far as burning his face and banishing him for speaking out of turn, and he encourages his daughter to be a perfect, merciless weapon for the Fire Nation only to cast her aside when he no longer needs her. When faced with open rebellion in the Earth Kingdom, Ozai plans to use Sozin's Comet to incinerate the entire continent and rule from the ashes as Phoenix King. A horrible father and a brutal dictator, Ozai represents the very worst of Fire Nation imperialism and Avatar Aang's ultimate test to stay true to his pacifist ideals.note
- Final Space: The Lord Commander is a tyrannical overlord bent on becoming a godlike being and ruling all dimensions. Throughout the series, the Lord Commander continually demonstrates his madness, whether by ordering Avocato to annex Ventrexia by force; ordering his lieutenants to kill their firstborn children as a display of loyalty; or corrupting the Infinity Guard to his cause. He lures his enemies to a prison planet, then tries to force a possessed Little Cato to murder his own father, culminating in the latter performing a Heroic Sacrifice when the Lord Commander spitefully plants a sticky bomb on Little Cato's back. The Lord Commander traps Mooncake in a laser machine which painfully forces him to create a portal to Final Space, uncaring that this spells the entire Earth being destructively dragged into the other dimension. Resurrected by Invictus, the Lord Commander is revealed to be responsible for Avocato murdering Little Cato's birth family. He goes on to betray Invictus in favor of merging with an incubating Titan at the Earth's core and attaining godhood on his own terms; destroying what's left of the planet from the inside, before killing the heroic Titan Bolo.note
- Silverwing: Goth is a giant cannibal bat from South America. Captured by humans, he's sent to lab in a North American city for study. After escaping, he begins killing and devouring bats, owls and birds; the latter General Brutus blames on the Silverwing bats, causing him to persecute them. Goth kills an owl that was trying to kill Shade, then he pretends to be Shade's friend, saying he will protect Shade's colony when he's actually planning to eat them all once Shade has led him to them. Later, Goth and his brother-in-law Throbb massacre a coven of bats and keep the metal bands they were wearing as trophies. When Shade and Goth are trapped in a mine, Shade suggests they work together to escape, but makes Goth promise to allow him and his friends to live; a promise Goth instantly reneges on when he is out of danger. Near the end of the series, Goth teams up with the wolves to take over the forest and goes on a killing spree against the owls to fulfill his part of this deal.note
- Terminator: Disappointed that its machines are unable to destroy the resistance, Skynet captures humans and infects them with machine-phase matter in an attempt to turn them into its newest Terminators, leading to many of them dying in insanity. Tricking humans into believing they destroyed it, Skynet takes the form of a human disguise named Alex and infiltrates the resistance, killing everyone except John Connor, whom it transforms into its new Terminator and brainwashes to serve Skynet's needs. Sending Connor to the past to create an operating system known as Genisys, which makes people too reliant on technology, Skynet plans to use the new system to completely destroy humanity.note
- Tolkien's Legendarium: Azog the Defiler, leader of the Orcs, is pledged to wipe out the line of Durin. To this end, he beheaded King Thrór in view of the latter's son and grandson, and then severed Thráin's finger. After Thorin Oakenshield cut off his arm, Azog vowed to gain revenge on the Dwarf by any means necessary, putting a bounty on his head. It's revealed that Azog slaughtered the Skinchangers by raiding their lands, then caging and torturing them for his own amusement; leaving Beorn as the Last of His Kind. Upon taking command of Sauron's armies, Azog decides to target innocent civilians in order to distract his enemies and gain an advantage, intending to exterminate the peoples of Lake-town, Mirkwood, Erebor and the Iron Hills all at once. When Thorin rides to Azog's command center to kill him, Azog has Thorin's nephew Fíli brought to him and then kills him in front of Thorin, taking sadistic glee at the moment.note
Edited by Derv0sB2 on Mar 22nd 2023 at 12:10:49 PM
My concern was that aside from Ghidorah, the Three-Headed Monster and a few brief moments, Showa Ghidorah spends most of his screen-time being mind-controlled, which removes his agency. As for the writeup... how's this look?
- Showa Continuity: King Ghidorah is Godzilla's Arch-Enemy, a three-headed alien dragon that travels the cosmos destroying worlds for his own amusement. Having attacked Venus — Mars in the English dub — thousands of years in the past, Ghidorah annihilated its advanced civilization and rendered the planet uninhabitable. Arriving on Earth intending to do the same, Ghidorah gleefully rampages across Japan before being driven off by the combined efforts of Godzilla, Rodan, and Mothra. Attacking Planet X, Ghidorah is mind-controlled by the Xiliens and used in their attempt to conquer Earth in the year 196X; though once free from their control he continues rampaging until being driven off by Godzilla and Rodan. Mind-controlled by the M Space Hunter Nebula Aliens' Action Signal Tapes, Ghidorah is partnered with the sadistic Gigan and ordered to wipe out human civilization, but is again driven off by Godzilla. Coming under the control of the Kilaaks, Ghidorah is sent to conquer Earth and holds his own against the combined might of Earth's kaiju, though this proves his final stand.
Edited by Arawn999 on Mar 26th 2023 at 3:08:45 AM
Oh, shit, forgot. Ebenezer Laughton at Marvel, right? I'll remove it from the Sandbox; mind taking care of Former Complete Monsters?
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Done, I linked it to the post of me asking about him that triggered the cuts.
EDIT: Although for the larger cut candidates under marvel and DC, would it be worth having them in a tree in the comic folder? Something like this?
- DC Comics
- A
- B
- C
- Candidate X
- Candidate Y
- D
Just so they're grouped together?
Edited by WetFlannels on Mar 22nd 2023 at 11:54:28 AM
What's wrong D-16? Rise up!VideoGame.Grand Theft Auto Online has an YMMV page, if anyone doesn't mind, I'm moving Avon Hertz over there.
Eh, good enough.Just a question I feel more comfortable asking here.
How many unique UnSubs are there in Criminal Minds? I know that there are 15 CMs and the heinous standards are among the worst amongst the works that can even have Complete Monsters note , but 15 out of how many?
Edited by Mr-ex777 on Mar 23rd 2023 at 10:50:56 PM

Keep Lansky and especially keep J. Geil. We've discussed the latter enough already and agree that he's heinous enough to still stand out and with J. Geil being brought up again gives me concern that we may have to put him into resolved items
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff