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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

ReddishGuy1 Since: Jul, 2014
#5126: Mar 15th 2023 at 2:55:18 PM

I forget, can we also propose images for Monster subpages on this thread or is there a different thread for that?

Just imagine something here.
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#5127: Mar 15th 2023 at 2:56:42 PM

[up] Do you mean an image for a subpage itself? If you are, Image Pickin's where you need to go.

Edited by WetFlannels on Mar 15th 2023 at 9:57:13 AM

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#5128: Mar 15th 2023 at 3:47:00 PM

Didn't you say "IIRC the only reason the book counterpart didn't count was due to the books' high heinousness standard, right?"
That was my understanding, at least. But since the book counterpart is up, may as well nominate the cartoon as well.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#5129: Mar 15th 2023 at 6:10:38 PM

I got a rather non-specific writeup from Simon R. Green I wanna buff out.

Original:

  • Empress Lionstone XIV, aka the Iron Bitch, is known for her wicked, capricious, and lethal sense of humor. She won't just kill someone For the Evulz, but if she has a reason to see them dead, she'll think up an entertaining — to her — way to go about it. She is attended by handmaiden bodyguards culled from the ranks of rebels and malcontents because she finds it amusing to turn those into her loyal servants, has their tongues cut out, replaces their eyes and ears with more controllable cybernetics, and has them mindwiped and reconditioned into absolutely loyal attendants and bodyguards. Projects under her reign range from trying to yoke the ridiculously lethal Grendels into shock troops, to Wormboy Hell, an oubliette with a side order of Mind Rape. Lionstone

Rewrite:

  • Empress Lionstone XIV, aka the "Iron Bitch," is the quintessence of every Evil Overlord of every Evil Empire rolled into one beautiful, soulless package. Known for her wicked and lethal sense of humor, Lionstone won't just kill someone For the Evulz; she'll think up an entertaining (to her) way to go about it. She is attended by handmaiden bodyguards culled from the ranks of rebels and malcontents because she finds it amusing to turn those into her loyal servants, has their tongues cut out, replaces their eyes and ears with more controllable cybernetics, and has them mindwiped and reconditioned into absolutely loyal attendants and bodyguards. Projects under her reign range from the annihilation the planet Virimonde for daring to engage in democracy; from trying to yoke the ridiculously lethal Grendels into shock troops; to Wormboy Hell, an oubliette where rebel espers are kept imprisoned in states of constant mental violation and agony.

Edited by Scraggle on Mar 15th 2023 at 7:11:12 AM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#5130: Mar 16th 2023 at 1:33:33 AM

I dig the rewrite, Scrags!

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#5132: Mar 16th 2023 at 5:24:32 PM

Rewrite works there.

I bring this query up again, which also links to another query I have that noone who had commented knew what to make of it. Some feedback would be appreciated here folks.

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#5133: Mar 16th 2023 at 5:31:18 PM

"Approval of God" for this website's purposes just seems to indicate a creator enjoys the fan work. What's the context here? Has this work being semi-canonized or something? If not I'd cut it.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#5134: Mar 17th 2023 at 3:47:01 AM

Scraggle, I think those are your candidates. What say you?

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#5135: Mar 17th 2023 at 4:12:02 AM

I'm fine with moving them to fan works, but Approval of God goes beyond "liking the work" in this instance; many of the original creators approved, referred the writers on certain storylines and some came on as guest artists for the final arcs.

They're not officially published or licensed, no, but they are affectionately treated as canon by the original team.

Edited by Scraggle on Mar 17th 2023 at 5:13:30 AM

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#5136: Mar 17th 2023 at 4:17:38 AM

Lean keeping duo on Sonic page, that level of involvment from creators seems like it may be just enought.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#5137: Mar 17th 2023 at 4:37:13 AM

[up][up]Good enough for me. Keep 'em on the Sonic page.

FWIW, they're already at Fan Works as well.

This seems similar to that Transformers work Alignment, which is both at the fan works page and the Transformers page, because while it's unlicensed, it's by Simon Furman himself.

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#5138: Mar 17th 2023 at 4:46:20 AM

If they're treated as Canon by the original guys that's enough for me.

Anyone got a reply for Scarecrow?

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#5139: Mar 17th 2023 at 6:35:45 AM

Unless someone has a real good argument for Scarecrow, cut him.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#5140: Mar 17th 2023 at 8:51:33 AM

Cut Scarecrow.

As I wait for the 72-hour mark end so that I may do my write-ups for the Prima Macula and Milo, I want to re-write Vitalis's and Nicolas's EP.

Here's what they look now:

  • Innocence:
    • Vitalis Benevent is the Grand Inquisitor with the intent of acquiring the Macula to conquer the world. Believing himself as almighty, Vitalis had his forces hunt Hugo de Rune to acquire his blood and perfect it, to acquire the power of the plague and to prolong his own life. To that end, he had many people killed and tortured, including Rodric's father after they became of no more use to him, with Beatrice de Rune kept and tortured to gain her knowledge of the Macula. Once he managed to get the Macula after sacrificing legions of his own men, Vitalis tried to tie up all loose ends by corrupting Hugo to become his follower and get him to kill Amicia. When Amicia and Hugo confront Vitalis into the headquarters of the Inquisition to stop him, Vitalis revealed that he managed to breed numerous rats under his own control and intend to use it take over all of Europe, believing he himself is humanity's savior, sacrificing an entire congregation to his powers. Power-hungry and ruthless, Vitalis plunged the world to a dark era of the plague to reach absolute power.
    • Sir Nicholas is a knight who butchered countless people in the mission given to him by Vitalis. In charge of capturing Hugo de Rune, Nicholas led the massacre of the de Rune household, killing even the helpless servants and torturing Beatrice, the matriarch of the de Rune family. When the plague began to rise, Nicholas headed the Inquisition to kill countless villagers, even those who weren't infected, and abandoned many of his own men to the mercy of the plague, silently enjoying the slaughter. Once the Inquisition was able to grab hold of Hugo, Nicholas had his own men sacrificed to overtax Hugo's power to keep him in check and strengthen Vitalis's own power. With Hugo at his side, he accompanies him to attack Château d'Ombrage and tries to coerce him to murder Amicia with his rats. When Hugo resisted, Nicholas takes a hands-on approach, killing Arthur before trying to kill Amicia personally.

These are my suggested re-writes for them:

  • Innocence:
    • Vitalis Benevent is the power-hungry Grand Inquisitor who learns about Hugo’s connection to the Prima Macula. Vitalis has his forces hunt Hugo so he can obtain Hugo’s blood and use it to control the plague and prolong his own life. He also had many people tortured and killed, including Rodric's father, while having Hugo’s mother Beatrice imprisoned and tortured for her knowledge of the Macula. Capturing Hugo and sacrificing legions of his own men to the boy’s power, Vitalis tries to corrupt Hugo to become his follower and kill his sister, Amicia. When Amicia and Hugo confront Vitalis, he reveals to them that he has bred numerous rats under his own control and sacrificed an entire congregation to them with the intent of using his newfound powers to Take Over the World.
    • Sir Nicholas is Vitalis’s right-hand knight, who’s butchered countless people under his master’s service. Assigned to capture Hugo, Nicholas leads a massacre of the de Rune household, killing Hugo’s father and countless servants before capturing Beatrice to torture. During his pursuit of Hugo, Nicholas and his forces kill countless villagers, infected or not, while Nicolas abandons his own men to the mercy of his enemies and the plague as he enjoys the slaughter. When the Inquisition caputures Hugo, Nicholas sacrifices his own men to Hugo’s rats to test the boy’s powers. Taking Hugo to Château d’Ombrage, Nicolas tries coercing him to murder Amicia with his rats. When Hugo refuses, Nicholas kills his friend Arthur before attempting to kill Amicia himself.

While I'm at it I want to tweak my write-up for The Lady from Little Nightmares a little bit (the changes will quoted)

  • First Game & Secrets of the Maw DLC): The Lady is the wicked sorceress in charge of the Maw. Obsessed with her vanity and control over her domain, the Lady has children captured and brought to The Maw where she would feed them to her guests". If" the Lady finds any children trying to escape, she would transform them into Nomes and have them perform slave labor throughout the Maw, having already subjected this fate to many children, including DLC protagonist the Runaway Kid, and attempts to use her dark magic on heroine Six.

Anythoughts?

Edited by G-Editor on Mar 17th 2023 at 1:14:26 PM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#5141: Mar 17th 2023 at 9:19:15 AM

I think Lighty did the original writeups, so you'd have to check with him.

As for The Lady...I'm fine with it since it's your writeup, but I see nothing bolded.

Edited by ACW on Mar 17th 2023 at 12:31:15 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#5142: Mar 17th 2023 at 9:30:06 AM

What's changed and why? I honestly don't like the new ones. They don't flow very well, and they just kind of seem like "and he does this. And he does this."

Edited by Lightysnake on Mar 17th 2023 at 9:31:53 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#5143: Mar 17th 2023 at 10:04:11 AM

Actually, one change which CAN be made for the Lady is breaking up that run-on sentence:

  • First game & Secrets of the Maw DLC: The Lady is the wicked sorceress in charge of the Maw. Obsessed with her vanity and control over her domain, the Lady has children captured and brought to The Maw where she would feed them to her guests; if the Lady finds any children trying to escape, she would transform them into Nomes and have them perform slave labor throughout the Maw. The Lady has already subjected many children to this fate, including DLC protagonist the Runaway Kid, and attempts to use her dark magic on heroine Six.

Edited by ACW on Mar 17th 2023 at 1:05:20 PM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#5144: Mar 17th 2023 at 10:11:48 AM

[up] That actually works for the Lady. The original change I made for her was adding a period to where the semicolon use to be right before the "If". (I can put quotations instead if it helps locate the changes better)

As for the Plague Tale Innocence monsters, I just thought that to clean them up a little given and get rid of any unnecessary clatter.

For Vitalis, I thought to get rid of the last sentence since it described Vitalis bringing the plague to a dark era, though in Requiem, The Macula brings the plague to an even worse era after getting Hugo to submit to it where it destroys Marseille and countless of people are shown to get ill throughout, while the first paragraph mentions Vitalis wanting to use the Macula to conquer the world, while the second-to-last sentence describes him wanting to use his powers to conquer Europe so I thought I find a way to merge them. I also thought to replace Big Bad for Evil Old Folks since while Vitalis is the Big Bad of Innocence he's not the main villain of the while series (though we can still keep the Big Bad link there for innocence)

For Nicolas, I just thought to trim it up and get of any unnecessary details since he's not the main villain of Innocence but rather The Dragon to him and along the way I thought to include him killing Hugo's father.

Again I only just wanted to bring the re-writes here to see what other people thought about them and they are not official. If no one likes the re-writes, then we don't have to use them, and instead we can continue using the old write-ups or someone else can give a shot on doing them (I'll guess that Lighty would do the re-writes for them if he wants to since he did the original write-ups)

Edited by G-Editor on Mar 17th 2023 at 1:14:50 PM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#5145: Mar 17th 2023 at 10:56:51 AM

Popping here too; I know decision was made weeks ago but I read conversation on Jack Horner after seeing him not being on the list and though, I was initially suprised, I think you guys made very great points. No to Jack.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#5146: Mar 17th 2023 at 11:10:28 AM

@Plague Tale: I don't think the original writeups need to be rewritten. The "fixes" make the entries look clunkier, IMO.

@Emperors, please don't post just to vote on a discussion from weeks ago. We established the voting windows exactly to curtail stuff like this.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#5147: Mar 17th 2023 at 11:33:09 AM

[up] My bad. Sorry. Looks like my absence showed how unaware I am of the new rules.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#5148: Mar 17th 2023 at 11:40:03 AM

I saw this on Stuart Macher character page.

  • Pet the Dog: Gave Randy a chance to escape as he went after Sidney despite having plenty of time to kill him.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#5149: Mar 17th 2023 at 11:43:11 AM

That's not what he did at all. He just prioritized another target for the sheer purpose of gaslighting Sidney more

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#5150: Mar 17th 2023 at 11:57:41 AM

Moving this so it's not a page bottom

Edited by WetFlannels on Mar 17th 2023 at 7:09:07 PM

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!

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