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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#5101: Mar 14th 2023 at 10:44:07 PM

Does Frank Fontaine from Bioshock being disgusted at the idea that people thought he wanted the Little Sisters because he was a pedophile (as Atlas in Burial At Sea) chewing out his minions for needlessly torturing Elizabeth by forcing her to play Russian Roulette do anything to disqualify him. Bioshock 2 also has a painting of his family in his office and, while they aren’t mentioned elsewhere, there is no information on if he was abusive towards them or not.

Once Upon A Time.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#5102: Mar 14th 2023 at 11:07:02 PM

No, everything he does is basically pragmatic purposes.

Also, does his family even exist? He makes it pretty clear in Bioshock 1 he doesn't actually gave one, IIRC

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#5103: Mar 14th 2023 at 11:20:02 PM

I googled it, people were asking that same question about the painting. Most people seem to be answering 'Its probably fake' given Fontaine's entire shtick and that he says Jack was the 'son I never had' in the first game. Which probably means the son in the painting does not exist.

Bow to the Prototype
TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#5104: Mar 14th 2023 at 11:22:51 PM

[up] I heard that the Rapture novel implies that him being highly offended that Ryan called him a pedophile was more than just the accusation being directed at him and he genuinely finds Pedophilia too abhorrent even for hi, which implies that there are moral lines even he wouldn’t cross.

Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Mar 14th 2023 at 2:23:27 PM

Once Upon A Time.
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#5105: Mar 15th 2023 at 1:07:24 AM

Well, is this portrayed as 'I have moral disgust against sexual crimes' or 'Ew that is gross'?

Bow to the Prototype
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#5106: Mar 15th 2023 at 1:32:47 AM

There's no standards there for Fontaine, it's barely a "disgusted" reaction and he's putting on airs in the scene anyway so any "disgust" is easily explained as part of the front. The full scene:

"What exactly are you up to, in that Little Sisters Orphanage, Fontaine?" Ryan asked. "You barely take care of the boys in the other wing of the orphanage. It all seems to be about the girls. If you're using them for your personal little playthings..."
Fontaine's eyes flashed. "What do you take me for? I’m like you. I like full-grown women. As for the orphanage," Fontaine went on blandly, “we're just trying to give back to the community." He managed to say it with a straight face.

Edited by Ravok on Mar 15th 2023 at 1:33:35 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#5107: Mar 15th 2023 at 4:20:43 AM

Anymore Redwall rewrites coming?

Silverblade, I'll trust you with Elfes; feel free to reformat the Sandbox if you wish.

Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#5108: Mar 15th 2023 at 7:40:01 AM

I was checking the Monster Sandboxes page and looked through the "User EP Plans" list for upcoming effort posts. I know that some of those sandboxes in the list are updated and maintained on a regular basis (Scraggle's, G-Editor's, Geode, Jackie and Emerald for example) but others seem to have posted all effort posts in their sandboxes at the thread and haven't been updated for some time (43's, Ravok's, Beast's, etc.) May we discuss if we can cut some tropers off the list or should we keep all of their pages on the list?

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#5109: Mar 15th 2023 at 7:48:02 AM

I mean, don't just cut any of the pages, but if a proposal has been made and the user hasn't gotten rid of it, then I guess there's no harm in doing that yourself.

CapitanoNox Lord of Space from Italy Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Lord of Space
#5110: Mar 15th 2023 at 11:14:33 AM

If a character was previously approved as a CM, but said character and their story are completely removed, that means they gotta be removed right?

Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#5111: Mar 15th 2023 at 11:38:34 AM

Anymore Redwall rewrites coming?

Not on my end, but I'm curious if Tim Curry's Slagar has any disqualifying features. IIRC the only reason the book counterpart didn't count was due to the books' high heinousness standard, right?

If a character was previously approved as a CM, but said character and their story are completely removed, that means they gotta be removed right?
Not sure what you mean by that. Could you please elaborate?

Edited by Arawn999 on Mar 15th 2023 at 11:40:17 AM

CapitanoNox Lord of Space from Italy Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Lord of Space
#5112: Mar 15th 2023 at 11:43:44 AM

Previously, a character from the RPC Authority was approved: RPC-913, aka the Crooked Man.

However, the character was deleted on the RPC site and replaced with something that has nothing to do with him.

I saw a few days ago someone already removed his CM entry on the RPC's YMMV page, but it's still on Other Media.

Edited by CapitanoNox on Mar 15th 2023 at 7:44:48 PM

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#5113: Mar 15th 2023 at 11:45:45 AM

Actually it's TV tropes policy to keep up pages and examples of a work even if it got deleted, as long as we have evidence that it existed it stays

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#5114: Mar 15th 2023 at 11:46:06 AM

The hell? That's weird. We probably have to remove it, but that's REALLY odd.

[up]It seems like we don't even have evidence, unless someone wants to use Wayback.

EDIT: Arawn, you mean this Slagar? He's there.

Edited by ACW on Mar 15th 2023 at 2:47:31 PM

CapitanoNox Lord of Space from Italy Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Lord of Space
#5115: Mar 15th 2023 at 11:47:37 AM

Yeah, RPC doesn't have an archive for deleted articles or something like that. So, apart from a few fanarts, essentially nothing proves the Crooked Man existed.

Edited by CapitanoNox on Mar 15th 2023 at 7:48:00 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
CapitanoNox Lord of Space from Italy Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Lord of Space
#5117: Mar 15th 2023 at 12:05:53 PM

May I be damned, that's exactly him.

Guess this means his CM entry can stay.

We gotta understand how to call him tho since now there's a new RPC-913.

Edited by CapitanoNox on Mar 15th 2023 at 8:09:30 PM

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
CapitanoNox Lord of Space from Italy Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Lord of Space
#5119: Mar 15th 2023 at 12:19:06 PM

Yeah I guess that works.

CapitanoNox Lord of Space from Italy Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Lord of Space
#5120: Mar 15th 2023 at 12:23:50 PM

Imma readd his page to the YMMV then.

CapitanoNox Lord of Space from Italy Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#5122: Mar 15th 2023 at 12:42:06 PM

I found this on Robin Hood for the 2006 BBC series:

  • Thornton, Isabella's Abusive Spouse, who is clearly a sadistic monster who gleefully enjoys torturing his wife (and anyone else he can get his hands on). Prince John was at least entertaining to watch, whereas Thornton was nothing but a complete Hate Sink.

Now I've never seen this series, but I know Thorton hasn't been approved. Could someone remove him please.

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#5124: Mar 15th 2023 at 2:39:44 PM

Arawn, you mean this Slagar? He's there.

I was thinking the one from the animated series rather than the book.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#5125: Mar 15th 2023 at 2:43:54 PM

Didn't you say "IIRC the only reason the book counterpart didn't count was due to the books' high heinousness standard, right?"


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