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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#4676: Mar 1st 2023 at 6:16:05 AM

I could go either way on Colin, TBH.

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#4677: Mar 1st 2023 at 6:31:33 AM

Cut Colin. I don't remember how I voted on Horner, but I'm fine with a cut there too.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#4678: Mar 1st 2023 at 6:39:26 AM

I think I was fine with Colin before because of a combination of the highest rape count and that added cruel touch of making his victims clean up his crime scenes, but I have no real skin in the game

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#4680: Mar 1st 2023 at 7:25:22 AM

I need to review Colin a bit more, but I lean to a cut...crime shows, lordy.

And yeah, that's honestly a terrific point from Shadao. As bad as Jack is on paper, the film isn't just a comedy and parody, but a soulful meditation on coming to grips with one's own mortality. Xykon, admittedly is played entirely for laughs in the early days of Order of the Stick, but the strip later becomes way more dramatic and Rich Burlew did an entire prequel that strips Xykon entirely of humorous traits to demonstrate what a sick sociopath he really is.

It's a similar point I made with Abridged Frieza in how the gravitas is taken. Killing your men for petty slights and committing genocide? Awful.

Killing one of your men to avoid an awkward conversation how you mistakenly interpreted your right-hand man's orientation and recording how many times your victims use stock hero lines when they confront you during said mass slaughter? Hilarious.

Likewise, Jack turning someone to gold? Heinous. Getting annoyed and turning them to gold because they won't stop reminding you of your nursery rhyme where you came in second to Pinocchio? Hilarious

Edited by Lightysnake on Mar 1st 2023 at 7:28:46 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#4681: Mar 1st 2023 at 7:53:19 AM

Colin's effortpost, for reference.

Episode is only $3.49 on iTunes if anyone wants to watch it for themselves.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#4682: Mar 1st 2023 at 8:12:12 AM

Cut Colin and especially Jack (though I am interested in the novel version)

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#4683: Mar 1st 2023 at 8:19:39 AM

Okay so switching to cut Jack (I admittedly haven’t seen the movie in question so I’m reading what Jack’s detractors have to say about him)

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#4684: Mar 1st 2023 at 8:21:50 AM

I think the movie takes Jack seriously enough to be the Final Boss of the movie, but this isn't a hill I'm willing to die on

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#4685: Mar 1st 2023 at 8:21:53 AM

Well I still maintain the underlying factor of the movie being about accepting and valuing your own mortality and someone like Jack being a sadistically gleeful threat to all mortality still gives him a fairly valuable role in all that seriousness regardless of his comedic moments being prominent. I also contrast him to Antwan in that Antwan had the one big MEH moment in the end but nothing else to counteract his absurd comedy moments while Jack still clearly kills people remorselessly even before the climax where he intends to take all power in the world. I wouldn't say we repeated arguments from the last discussion on Jack, though I have noticed the state of mind clearly changed.

What's the vote tally between both discussions on Jack? Or do we not do it like that anymore?

If the consensus ultimately lies on Jack having to be cut, while I don't agree with it, I can accept it. This was a very reasonable conversation and we all came to a pretty fair conclusion.

[down]We also established a CM can have a funny death scene too though. Prince Joachim for instance.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 1st 2023 at 8:27:02 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#4686: Mar 1st 2023 at 8:25:01 AM

[up][up]Tbf that's because the other guys got redeemed or walked off so we needed someone. And even than his death STILL parodies the judgment day thumbs up scene. Which is pretty funny ngl.

[up]Does that character also have everything he do as part of a joke like here?

Edited by miraculous on Mar 1st 2023 at 8:30:02 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#4687: Mar 1st 2023 at 8:26:37 AM

I mean they could've beaten Jack before Death and part of his fairytale is his thumb but like I said this isn't a hill to die on

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#4688: Mar 1st 2023 at 8:31:15 AM

I mean thematically it makes more sense to see death conquered for Puss before him rejecting the wish. It also helps faciliates Goldie's heelfaceturn.

I dont think him just being the last guy is meant as a value of threat or anything.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#4689: Mar 1st 2023 at 8:33:22 AM

[up]I think that helps give him more story weight or at least reinforce it—again, like it did with Gibbs, but I can see why tone is such a hard thing to ignore though. I also admit that it does mean really having to look hard for the story moments with him that are given the proper gravitas when the ones with both Wolf and Goldi—and heck, even Humpty—are easier to spot through the jokes in the end. The final fight with Jack ending in his death is meant to signify the biggest mortal threat by that point—the one who'd do the most damage with the star—being conquered.

I will also admit and concede that while I support Jack staying, someone like Rumpelstiltskin even if also comedic and only turning a kingdom into a Crapsack World does have more seriousness in his role in his film as well to help offset the comedy better. He's a better comparison than Farquaad if you ask me.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 1st 2023 at 8:43:47 AM

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#4690: Mar 1st 2023 at 8:54:40 AM

You know, I had a feeling Jack would be relitigated sooner or later. Affirming my [tdown] for him.

Why so serious?
TheWrongOne41 The Clown is in town (*he*/she/they) from Somewhere, Mexico Since: May, 2022 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
The Clown is in town (*he*/she/they)
#4691: Mar 1st 2023 at 9:37:31 AM

If the vote is still going on for Jack Horner, i am leaning into a weak keep still. I ain't saying the arguments aren't valid, but i still believe that he just pushes over the line.

How many are cut / keep now?

Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice. (also i'm fluid now)
PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#4692: Mar 1st 2023 at 9:39:26 AM

I flip-flopped on Jack in the original discussion, but I’m fine with cutting him now.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#4693: Mar 1st 2023 at 9:40:05 AM

Pretty sure that we still do tally the votes, if only so that we have accurate numbers.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#4694: Mar 1st 2023 at 9:43:28 AM

We do indeed, we'll need the votes from the prior discussion—accounting for flips—plus new ones from the litigation.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#4695: Mar 1st 2023 at 9:50:36 AM

I'm switching to abstain on Jack.

Someone please give me a list of all the confirmed cuts this week. Driscoll included if confirmed.

Edited by ACW on Mar 1st 2023 at 12:51:24 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#4697: Mar 1st 2023 at 10:01:59 AM

King voted to cut.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#4698: Mar 1st 2023 at 10:03:39 AM

[up][up]There was about 30 votes in the previous discussion. Having trouble finding the post right now.

@ACW Not sure how many voted, but yeah, no one opposed Driscoll's cut though from what I recall.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 1st 2023 at 10:27:30 AM

Luigigalaxy Since: May, 2022
#4699: Mar 1st 2023 at 10:03:44 AM

I’m gonna go with a cut on jack Horner, too comedic in my opinion and not sure if he’s heinous enough.

Edited by Luigigalaxy on Mar 1st 2023 at 10:04:09 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#4700: Mar 1st 2023 at 10:08:16 AM

Was that reporter from that song a consensus cut?


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