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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#376: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:02:04 PM

Keep Stu as his rape and torture seems unique enough to stand out

Also there's no rule that one work can have too many CMs as with the exception of Jeremy, each member of the Artimiage is unique enough to stand out on their own, with Rose luring victims to their fates, Sissy trapping them inside their own consciences, Dean conducting the horrific surgery and Roman orchestrating the entire operation, while at no point show any true care towards one another, so I'd say keep them all, including Sissy and Dean.

Edited by G-Editor on Dec 11th 2022 at 1:03:18 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#377: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:03:22 PM

Guys Space wasn't advocating to cut Stu, he only mentioned him to explain he decided not to do it.

MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#379: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:04:59 PM

In fairness to the following posts an opinion on a listed candidate's position invites discussion.

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#380: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:09:52 PM

I've been thinking of a potential cut myself since I've been reading a lot of Discworld lately. Namely about bringing up Lady Felmet from Wyrd Sisters and if she's played seriously enough, especially compared to the other monsters in the franchise.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#381: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:12:15 PM

When it comes to Missy and Dean. Honestly I am not personally as sure either, especially in the case of Missy.

I can understand the points and I do understand that it isn't impossible for a single film to have this many CM's. But the problem for me is I am not sure Missy is really unique enough. She doesn't have that many crimes that are really exclusive to herself and the main bulk of her crimes are what the Armitage family is participating in. There was that other film with 4/5 keepers that I remember, but in that case each keeper was a completely different type of villain. In Missy's case she really blends in with the rest of her family with her only super standout crime being the Mind Rape, but I feel the heinous standard may be too crowded for her to stand out. In hindsight maybe I can give Dean more leeway since he is leading the operations in the present but Missy I am less sure on.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Dec 11th 2022 at 3:14:40 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#382: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:12:22 PM

I don't even remember Greywhinder's effortpost.

Also, does it go to Web Animation or Fan Works?

[down] Ah, makes sense.

Edited by ACW on Dec 11th 2022 at 6:15:34 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#383: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:14:03 PM

I did it a long time ago. The entry has been approved for a while Snoke is expanding it.

It is already in Web Animation, it's connections to FNAF are more inspirations.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#384: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:14:52 PM

Meanwhile I’m the opposite - for me, while I think both are unique enough to stay, Missy’s Mind Rape is easily the more viscerally horrific - she’s trapping dozens of innocent people inside their own body, leaving them aware of their fate but unable to do anything about it. I mean, just look at how clearly tortured Andre is when he briefly breaks out of Logan’s body - it’s horrific, and saying that it’s “just” that feels like dramatic underselling of the situation

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#385: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:15:54 PM

The Sunken Place is one of the most horrific things in Get Out. The entire sequence of Chris experiencing it at Missy's hands is a drawn out, torturous sequence, something she regularly inflicts.

I strongly disagree it isn't unique enough when she engages in such a horrible process to everyone, exploiting their trauma in the cruelest form possible.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#386: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:16:04 PM

I'm abstaining on all the Get Out stuff, because A) it was discussed in detail, but even beyond that, B) I've still not seen it.

IkeaHan Franchouchou Sponsor from Kamurocho, Tokyo Since: May, 2021 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Franchouchou Sponsor
#387: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:16:40 PM

Do you all keep a list of entries and whether or not they're cleaned up? We had the same deal with Character Specific Pages, and created a byte check for tracking what stays.

Character Specific Page cleanup
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#388: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:16:42 PM

Btw Space. Did you by any chance get these arguments from near pure evil wiki.

As I checked the sections and notice their pretty similar imo to what you just said. Down to the whole individuality thing.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#389: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:17:24 PM

Maybe I wasn't super clear, I am not trying to say the process itself isn't horrific it clearly is. It is more that he role in that blends in a lot with the rest of her family that I am not sure if she is enough of a standout. Though I can understand if people disagree.

[up] Yeah he probably did, I have seen him on the wiki before.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Dec 11th 2022 at 3:17:49 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#390: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:17:26 PM

Like Star I'm very much of the belief Missy's Mind Rape is not only cruel but an integral part of the Armitage's "business", just as Dean's doing the surgery to present the "products" to their clients. They've very much a villainous husband-wife duo in the operation overall representing two horrible steps in the process, it's not just like she's a side villain with some minor crime to her name.

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#391: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:21:15 PM

I think I'm fine with all the Armitage keepers.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#392: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:21:20 PM

@Ikea Han: Hi there! I don't think we have a formal list, honestly....most entries are pretty clean from some time ago.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#393: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:23:09 PM

@ Ikea Seconding the welcome and by "cleaned" do you mean listing out older entries that need revamping? Not quite sure what you're referring to.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#394: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:28:03 PM

Yeah Marinne is a passive supporter and Jeremy a dumb prick used for brute strength—and doesn't even have the benefit of the rest of his family's false charm too. [tup] to keeping Dean and [tup] to keeping Missy. Everyone has pretty much said why at this point: each of the four's roles are insanely distinct and crucial to doing what they do and they exist much more as a cult that just happens to be an actual family.

Also, we've exhausted discussion on Stu at this point unless that planned idea of him being alive and training new Ghostface killers is what Scream VI does.

Multiple candidates in a work is also not a sign of quality as said before too. Season 6 of 24–often deemed the weakest of the show—has four keepers—I think Cheng still counts even without the events of Live Another Day—which is probably more than any other season of the show.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#395: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:35:22 PM

Honestly was against Dean and Missy namely the latter because I saw the former as worse since he actually does the surgeries. That aside, yeah, don't really see the arguments against them.

Edited by AustinDR on Dec 11th 2022 at 3:36:00 AM

IkeaHan Franchouchou Sponsor from Kamurocho, Tokyo Since: May, 2021 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Franchouchou Sponsor
#396: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:36:30 PM

@43 Like once an entry has been through this thread or a clean up thread prior, you can just check it off somewhere indicating that it's discussed in case people were looking to bring it up again.

It also wouldn't hurt to have in case an entry needs revamping, so you can list it as such as a general notifier.

Character Specific Page cleanup
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#397: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:38:35 PM

  • Neon Genesis Evangelion 2: Chairman Keel Lorenz of SEELE is an elitist psychopath with a god complex. Having triggered the Second Impact and killed off most of humanity for his plans to become a deity, Keel now funds NERV to defeat the monstrous Angels, while subtly making moves to advance the scenario in which he and his cohorts in SEELE's council may transcend via the Human Instrumentality Project. If he discovers Gendō Ikari's plan to betray him, Keel manipulates the Japanese military into assaulting NERV headquarters and slaughtering the staff nearly to the last. When another Evangelion pilot fights back, Keel attempts to have his violent, mindless Mass Production Evangelion units painfully tear her apart. Seeking to initiate Third Impact using Evangelion Unit-01, Keel cares nothing when his plot causes all of humanity to suffer nightmarish visions as they are remade powerlessly into Primordial Soup under him. His scheme meaning a state of permanence for all that lives under him, Keel's designs cruelly twist the benevolent intent of humanity's alien ancestors' original plan. Lacking the ambiguous desire to evolve humanity of his original incarnation, Keel's dialogue makes it clear he is a vicious megalomaniac willing to inflict endless suffering to take ultimate power.
  • Harmony & Horror: Martin Greywhinder is the depraved co-founder of M&H Harmony Toys. Once a loving husband, he grew hateful, abusive, and cruel when he learned that his wife had children with his brother. Martin allied with demonic forces and aired a haunted TV program that horribly mangled the children who watched it. He also murdered his young intern, ripping her spine out. Martin kills his wife Gloria and shoots his brother, fusing him with an animatronic and forcing him to help murder Gloria's children, using Satanic rituals to force them into agonizing toy bodies. In his obsession with control, he turns his dog into a monster and tries to force him to kill the infant Ava. Martin continues to kidnap, mutilate, and kill swaths of children, using their souls to make them into living toys unable to die.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#398: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:40:19 PM

Edit: misread

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Dec 11th 2022 at 6:40:41 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#399: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:50:01 PM

That idea might possibly work though I am not totally sure what it could be used for.

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#400: Dec 11th 2022 at 3:52:26 PM

Keep missy and Dean.

That being said does anybody have thoughts about my proposed Palpatine rewrite.

From:

  • Sheev Palpatine is a Dark Lord of the Sith who is by far one of the franchise's most iconic and evil villains. Born as a nasty sociopath who loved to inflict pain and sought to extend his influence wherever he could, in his various guises as Darth Sidious and ruler of the Galactic Republic and later the Galactic Empire, he has been responsible for orchestrating galactic-level wars; manipulating others and then disposing of them when they have served his needs; personally murdering and torturing a vast number of people; tyrannically oppressing trillions of sapient beings; wiping out billions of lives to secure and then maintain power; and concocting a scheme to destroy the entire Empire and its countless soldiers should he perish. His crimes across the entire franchise are detailed in various canon works, where he is the Big Bad; numerous Legends works; and "Others".

To:

  • Sheev Palpatine is a Dark Lord of the Sith who is by far one of the franchise's most iconic and evil villains. Born as a nasty sociopath who loved to inflict pain and sought to extend his influence wherever he could, in his various guises as Darth Sidious and ruler of the Galactic Republic and later the Galactic Empire, he has been responsible for orchestrating galactic-level wars; manipulating others and then disposing of them when they have served his needs; personally murdering and torturing a vast number of people; tyrannically oppressing trillions of sapient beings; wiping out billions of lives to secure and then maintain power; and concocting a scheme to HAVE HUNDREDS OF WORLDS DESTROYED BEFORE DOING SAME TO the entire Empire and its countless soldiers should he perish. His crimes across the entire franchise are detailed in various canon works, where he is the Big Bad; numerous Legends works; and "Others".


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