Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
What changed for Zant's entry?
For Veran, I'd chop the sadist pothole and use The Heavy for her name. Maybe use Big Bad Duumvirate for Twinrova.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Salesman’s Stolen Mask
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Chopped the Sadist pothole, thanks. I don’t think The Heavy or Big Bad Duumvirate is really necessary, since her main purpose to be The Corruptor for Labrynna and the entry isn’t about Twinrova. As for Zant, I basically described his crimes in a bit more detail and used less sentences. It’s hard to explain, but I just rewrote it in a way where the info is mostly the same, but the general flow is smoother.
Edited by Remnant43 on Jan 31st 2023 at 11:14:18 AM
Balls idk
Goku Black
Cut soul edge.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I guess Takashima planting the bombs puts him above the rest. Ibuchi I'm not sure of either, can't really remember what he did to stick out. Iwami is more than fine, in my opinion, as he's considerably more personal and petty in his villainy when compared to everyone else here. Add him trying to kill a baby and what he does to Someya and I think he's the easiest keeper here.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I like The Heavy myself FWIW.
Please add the rewrites to the Drafts either way.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I found this on Octopath Traveler: Champions of the Continent in Pardis's folder that wasn't mentioned in his EP.
- Even Evil Has Loved Ones: Deconstructed; Ulrica seems to be the only one he ever loved, but it doesn't do anything to diminish his evilness.
The discussion around him was purely about heinousness, and while this says his love is deconstructed, it just says it's deconstructed by just not being redeeming. Anyone who's played the game got anything to say?
Edited by Agentofchaos on Jan 31st 2023 at 1:09:54 PM
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Scraggle said that he played that game and gave Paradis a ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
so you can ask him about it
Hey, I got us a probably cut:
From YMMV.Harry Brown:
- Complete Monster: Noel Winters is a psychotic, misogynistic, sadistic teenage leader of the gang of chavs living on the estate; he often abuses women for sexual pleasure while also engaging in regular acts of brutality, a lot of which he films on his phone. He and his gang regularly abuse Leonard to the point that the old man eventually tries to fight them with a bayonet - but is overpowered and killed by the gang, while they film his death on one of their phones. Although (whilst captured and being tortured by Harry) Marky admits that, whilst he and the others only really meant to scare Leonard, Noel was the one who ended up stabbing him. And Noel himself even urinates on the dead man's body. Later, during a riot on the housing estate, he is found hiding with help from his also-psychotic uncle. Having been confronted by Harry (and also having found a female police officer trying to call for help), Noel's uncle tells him to strangle the officer, and Noel takes pleasure in sadistically strangling the woman—and actually encourages her to struggle for her life, as he watches her die.
all of this is true and Noel is easily over the line for evil. Issue is when at the end, Noel is facing down Harry Brown, his uncle Sid tells him to drop his gun and Noel angrily states "Fuck you, he killed Marky and Carl!" (His gang)
Pretty clear care for his friends, IMO
Yeah, Noel seems like he genuinely wants to avenge his friends, cut him
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Cut Noel Winters. I was wondering about him for a while.
Not the Eye
Cut Noel
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ah, one of those one-line things. Yeah, seems like a cut.
Actually, if the work page is correct, it's a bit stronger than that: "Fuck that! This senile old cunt killed Marky and Carl!"
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Cut Noel
Edited by G-Editor on Jan 31st 2023 at 2:01:44 PM
Professor Gigachad
The Draftsman of Doom
Woagh
Goku Black
Alright so I'm bringing up one of my own for removal. I thought about and decided That he didn't do quite enough. From Nadia Stafford
- Exit Strategy: The Helter Skelter Killer, aka Wilkes, is a hitman who, in order to cover up his final hit, decides to create a massive murder spree to put the police off the scent. Fascinated by the crimes of Charles Manson, Wilkes leaves parts of the book Helter Skelter or letters claiming to be Manson's son at his murders, which include garroting a nice old woman; strangling a single mother to death; and using an ice pick to murder an old man. An Attention Whore who gets high off the infamy his crimes received, Wilkes tries to top himself by trying to murder the lover of an elderly wheelchair bound woman in front of her before killing her too and, driven by his need to beat his rival Jack, tries to callously kill Jack's apprentice Nadia out of spite.
Like the issue is that these deaths are kinda generic being simple stabbings. Koss is so, so much worse.
- Th guy shielded another sex predator (who I would have done on CM as well if Koss didn't imply that the other dude had genuine mental issues).
- He rapes and murders little girls. And finds his victims by playing that he's a victim rights activist which is shockingly low.
- He literally slit the throat of an 80 year old man with a blunt instrument. Do you know how much force you need for that. Its depicted as one of the worst things the author has written.
- Wild Justice: Sebastian Koss, a beloved crown prosecutor known for advocating victims' rights in sexual abuse cases, is actually a pedophilic Serial Killer and Serial Rapist himself. Koss uses his job as a guise to procure young victims for himself and cover up his heinous deeds. In his youth, Koss had his friend Drew Aldrich rape a teenage Nadia Stafford while Koss himself raped and killed her cousin Amy. In the present, Koss murders his friend Drew to tie up loose ends, guns down his second-in-command when he begins to have doubts and slits the throat of an eighty-year-old man in order to avoid detection. A sociopath fully aware of what a monster he is and proudly admitting to being without morals, Koss is Nadia's most evil and hated enemy.
It doesn't help that the series Roctown which is meant to be its sister series. Which I've now started to read. Features :
Such villains
- The Bad guy of the second book kidnaps four women, keeps them trapped in a small cave where he rapes them for months till they die.
- Oliver Brady and his stepfather. A pair of serial killers who who torture their victims to death including a 14 year old boy.
- The sixth group features a Cannibal Clan (in the woods of Canada huh?)
Like tbf Wilkes does have more confirmed and he did this just over a week but compared to these M Os. Uh... Like the reason I did Wilkes is what he pulls on the eldery couple which is bad. Buy like Koss literally slits the throat of an 80 year old man who couldn't defend himself and its done in such a. Like if it was just Koss. I would have been fine because main series wasn't too extreme but adding stuff like this means I really don't think he keeps.
And yes I do plan to do a few of these on CM eventually. But that's for the future. (Anyone want to split. PM me. Also got four for MB. So would like help). So I kinda Wilkes should go.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Not the Eye
Cut wilkes
Cut Wilkes, he's bad but those other guys outdo him
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Best Smile
I know the Owl House isn't over yet, but here's my draft on one villain that I think should be considered a "Complete Monster"
- Post Blanked for spoilers*
To be completed once the Finale of The Owl House airs.
Edited by CartoonAllStars on Jan 31st 2023 at 3:13:59 AM
Lies and Violence!
Okay, 1, that’s way too long, and 2, I think Scraggle is covering the show. Also ![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Cut the Yakuza two, Noel, and Wilkes.
Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Jan 31st 2023 at 5:38:44 AM
We're waiting for the show to end before officially considering Belos. Like we're all 99% certain he will count but with only one episode left we can wait on the off chance he does something redeeming, like he ends up feeling remorse over killing Caleb. Doubt that, but again, we're waiting till after the show ends.
Also we wait till 2 weeks after the release before going over stuff to give people time to watch it and avoid spoilers.
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
I genuinely think Soul Edge needs to go. It only became sapient upon absorbing so much blood and souls that it gained an evil consciousness. I'm willing to give a lot of leeway to some guys, but "evil sword" like that is pushing it for me. Cut.