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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#3851: Jan 30th 2023 at 3:36:33 PM

[up][up] Last time we agreed to just merge his writeup and place it on the Cyberpunk tree on Tabletop only but we never got around to that. If you want to you can.

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#3852: Jan 30th 2023 at 3:37:22 PM

I suggest we just combine all his crimes from the tabletop, video game, and animation into one entry. The one entry can go on both the tabletop and video game pages, but provide just a blue link and some explanatory text on the animation page due to his minimal role here.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
Calabash.
#3853: Jan 30th 2023 at 3:45:50 PM

Alright, here's the minor edit to his entry:

Edited by Siegfried1337 on Jan 30th 2023 at 3:46:14 AM

Eh, good enough.
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#3854: Jan 30th 2023 at 3:52:09 PM

It's been so long since that conversation to me that I had completely forgotten we had merged the entries already. So, that's my mistake.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#3855: Jan 30th 2023 at 4:28:39 PM

Cut Soul Edge, and I have a possible cut from Skulduggery Pleasant:

  • Kingdom of the Wicked: Kitana Kellaway is a teenage psychopath given powerful magic by Argeddion, introduced murdering sorcerer Patrick Xebec by telekinetically crushing his mind. Kitana and her friend Doran use their newfound powers to get revenge on those who have slighted them, brutally ripping apart Kitana's ex-boyfriend and Doran's abusive older brother before taking a class at their school hostage with the intent to kill everyone they can find. Egging on Doran and their comparatively more innocent friend Sean in committing more horrific crimes, such as slaughtering sorcerers sent to protect their school and threatening to wipe out the entire town of Roarhaven, Kitana kills Argeddion's lover in front of him while preparing to trap him in the Cube as an infinite battery for her psychotic fun, and when defeated tries to shift all the blame for her crimes onto Doran. A sadistic bully concerned only with endlessly spreading wanton destruction, Kitana is the perfect antithesis toward Argeddion's dream of spreading magic to all.

Kitana's a horrible, horrible person... but the heinous standard for this series is pretty high. About every third villain wants to summon back eldritch gods of evil who have razed down the multiverse and intend to enslave humanity, and most of the other antagonists have entirely unrelated ambitions of destroying the world or kicking off WWIII but with magic.

Now, could I see her staying? Sure, and not just because I absolutely hate her with all off my being.

  • Her primary method of killing people is to sadistically tear them to pieces, flinging limbs and chunks of body parts around until the surrounding area is a blood-red canvas covered in gore. It's not a unique method of murder, but no one else is quite so visceral about it, and she does it so often it's essentially her modus operandi—of her 9 or so successful murders, 7 are killed this way, with the other two being the guy whose brain she telekinetically crushes and an old lady she backhands really hard in front of her husband.
  • She's the absolute bottom of the barrel for resources, being a normal teenage girl who knew absolutely nothing about magic before being given godlike abilities she doesn't even know how to use outside of base instinct.
  • Finally, she's... well, to be blunt, a magic school shooter. She goes to her high school with the explicit intent to murder anyone and everyone she can find. The only reason she doesn't kill anyone there (aside from the five sorcerers sent to protect the building in case she came around) was because she was too busy terrifying her homeroom class with her powers, and is interrupted by the heroes before she can begin the real "fun."

I personally lean on the school attack being just enough of a fucked up niche to edge her over the baseline, especially considering just how little resources she has, but when a short story can have the main characters nonchalantly state they've foiled 8 entirely unrelated apocalypses within a single night, I felt a little revaluation was needed.

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#3856: Jan 30th 2023 at 4:46:05 PM

Cut soul edge

Unsure about Katana, on one hand series does have jacked standard with a lot of end of world plots, on other hand she is absolute bottom of the barrel in both resources and time to be active. Lean just weak keep as well due sheer brutality of her murders.

MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#3857: Jan 30th 2023 at 5:03:05 PM

Leaning to keep Katana on the grounds of how low she is on resources.

IPP Wick Check created.
Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#3858: Jan 30th 2023 at 6:03:57 PM

Do we have enough votes to cut Soul Edge? If so, I'll get on that right away.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#3859: Jan 30th 2023 at 6:05:50 PM

You should probably wait a bit longer, just to be safe.

Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#3860: Jan 30th 2023 at 6:15:46 PM

OK. I'll give it a couple of days.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#3861: Jan 30th 2023 at 6:21:58 PM

Does anyone have any other info on Soul Edge? I feel like the Made of Evil concerns came before and were shot down

I'm leaning keep on Katana

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
ITTrpr20 Since: Jan, 2018
#3862: Jan 30th 2023 at 6:27:27 PM

Ignore the post, apologies for the mixup

Edited by ITTrpr20 on Jan 31st 2023 at 8:10:22 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#3863: Jan 30th 2023 at 6:29:43 PM

a) wrong thread, you want the proposals thread

b) The deadline for discussion is 14 days and it's only been 10 since Engage came out.

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#3864: Jan 30th 2023 at 6:35:28 PM

also Agentofchaos has that game reserved so he's the one that's going to be handling the discussion.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#3865: Jan 30th 2023 at 6:58:11 PM

Yes, please delete the writeup so as to not accidentally spoil anyone.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#3866: Jan 30th 2023 at 7:22:52 PM

Delete the writeup, it's too early to discuss anything, also wrong thread.

IPP Wick Check created.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#3867: Jan 30th 2023 at 8:42:13 PM

Cut Soul Edge, not sold at all it has agency.

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
The Ultimate Lifeform
#3869: Jan 30th 2023 at 9:06:13 PM

Forgo Luz used Confuse Ray!

The Opposing Soul Edge became confused!

The Opposing Soul Edge is confused!

It cut itself in it's confusion!

(Obviously voting [tdown] to Soul Edge)

"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#3870: Jan 30th 2023 at 10:09:57 PM

Cut Soul Edge, not sold at all it has agency.

Well, there have been people who've tried to use it for good, but the only one who succeeded was Algol, and only because his indomitable will let him resist being corrupted by Inferno (the incarnation of Soul Edge's will within Astral Chaos). Soul Edge resented not being the one in the driver's seat and corrupted Algol's son Arcturus using his envy of his father's power.

And ironically it turns out that Soul Calibur is also Made of Evil (being formed from a "purified" shard of Soul Edge), just a different flavour of evil.

Edited by Arawn999 on Jan 30th 2023 at 10:11:23 AM

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#3871: Jan 30th 2023 at 11:09:04 PM

Isn't there like a second or third Soul series example anyway? The Big Bad of Soul Calibur 6 and I think Tira might be up too for what she does in 5. Cut Soul Edge. I feel this a Majora's Mask situation where if we could prove the artifact was actually aware of what it did and had moral agency it might count, I don't feel it necessary to keep something that is unaware of what it does evil.

Edited by Klavice on Jan 30th 2023 at 11:11:07 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#3872: Jan 31st 2023 at 12:16:41 AM

Cut Soul Edge.

Keep Kitana, but maybe with a rewrite to emphasize the brutality of her MO and her being a "magic school shooter".

OldMcBrother He/They from Earth Since: Jul, 2021
He/They
#3873: Jan 31st 2023 at 4:23:40 AM

Regarding the Yakuza/Like a Dragon candidates, I think Takashima keeps for overseeing Terada planting thirty-three bombs around Kamurocho, which would destroy or at least cause major destruction to the city.

Also want to hear more opinions on Ibuchi and Jingu, if you guys don't mind.

Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#3874: Jan 31st 2023 at 5:31:25 AM

I feel this a Majora's Mask situation where if we could prove the artifact was actually aware of what it did and had moral agency it might count, I don't feel it necessary to keep something that is unaware of what it does evil.

I'd say Soul Edge is very much aware of what it's doing and that what it's doing is evil, given that one of Nightmare's quotes in Soulcalibur VI is "You shall know true evil!"

It's fully sentient and goes out of its way to prey on the weaknesses of prospective hosts, like impersonating Vercci to manipulate Voldo and Frederick Schtauffen to manipulate Siegfried. The manifestation of its will even takes over the mantle of Nightmare after getting booted from Astral Chaos, and even before that was directly puppeteering Siegfried's body as Nightmare.


Isn't there like a second or third Soul series example anyway? The Big Bad of Soul Calibur 6 and I think Tira might be up too for what she does in 5.

I don't remember seeing Tira being brought up, though I would've thought Cervantes de Léon would've been a shoehorn considering all the awful stuff he does even outside of Soul Edge's influence... but nope. Turns out he idolized his privateer father until said beloved dad was killed by a disguised warship. Cervantes took his dad's hat, and decided to become the most notorious pirate ever in repudiation of his father's ideals and code of honour.

Edited by Arawn999 on Jan 31st 2023 at 5:48:01 AM

Remnant43 The Salesman’s Stolen Mask from In Your Walls Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Salesman’s Stolen Mask
#3875: Jan 31st 2023 at 6:57:51 AM

Not sure about Soul Edge, but I’m leaning [tdown] since it seems to be Made of Evil.

I’ve got some possible rewrites for some Zelda characters. They’re pretty minor and keep most of the information intact, but I made a slight tweak to Veran since I think saying she’s the main antagonist is unnecessary, and some changes to Zant that make it flow better.

  • Oracle of Ages: Veran, the Sorceress of Shadows, is a particularly sadistic minion of Twinrova. Tasked with spreading suffering through the land of Labrynna to resurrect Ganon, Veran chooses to do so by possessing Nayru, the Oracle of Ages, and going back in time 400 years. After worming her way into Queen Ambi's court, Veran uses her position as her advisor to convert a well-intentioned construction project into a symbol of oppression by having the healthy, able-bodied men of Labrynna forcibly conscripted into performing nonstop back-breaking labor to create the gargantuan Balck Tower. While she helps oversee construction, Veran causes chaos around the kingdom with effects that can be felt in the present day, such as turning people to stone or eliminating them entirely; killing the friendly, sapient Maku Tree as a helpless sapling; destroying Symmetry City and its inhabitants with a volcanic eruption; and threatening the lives of all ocean-dwelling beings by poisoning the sea. Both times Link confronts her, Veran is more than happy to use the bodies of those she possesses as human shields and cheerfully taunts him with the knowledge that killing her will kill her hosts as well.

  • Twilight Princess: Zant is a maniacal member of the Twili who aligns himself with Ganondorf in exchange for power, before overthrowing Midna and conquering the Twilight Realm, earning the title of "Usurper King". After transforming Midna into an imp and turning the rest of their kind into mindless shadow beasts, Zant begins extending his tyrannical reign into Hyrule. There, he executes the Zora queen in front of her people and freezes them all, leaving them to die; invades Hyrule Castle and forces Princess Zelda to surrender in exchange for the lives of her people; envelops Castle Town in Twilight, turning all of its citizens into terrified spirits; and attempts to permanently trap Link in a wolf form and kill Midna by forcing her into the light. When confronted in his palace, Zant calls the duo "traitors", ranting about how he alone deserves the throne before viciously attacking Link in a final battle. Despite being a mere pawn in Ganondorf's scheme, Zant stands out due to his sheer depravity and treacherous nature.

The Zant rewrite might have too many links, so if you think I should remove any, feel free to let me know.

Edited by Remnant43 on Jan 31st 2023 at 11:05:52 AM

Skyward bound and adrift in time

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