Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Barb / Temporary Kylo
The thing on Even Evil Can Be Loved can be removed I think. But like Lore I would like detail on how the ending with Rekka plays out.
The First man
Showtime!
I think we can cut that weird Even Evil Can Be Loved note. I'd like to hear more for Rekka, but I'm leaning cut
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Professor Gigachad
The difference I see, is like usually in Even Evil Can Be Loved cases there is only like one or two villains doing so, which is usually more of a way of showing either how pure-hearted they are or how close of a connection they have with the villain, maybe due to being a family member of something, even if the villain does not feel the same. The fact his entire team forgives him, a team he was previously fighting against, makes me really doubt he is genuinely played as a CM, even if he may or may not technically have any preventions.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 27th 2023 at 6:58:30 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Wild Child
Okay, so there's an entry I've been muddling over for a long time, but abstained from bringing up until now. This isn't necessarily a cut request, just hoping for some thoughts.
- Wonder Woman (2006): Astarte, the renegade Amazon, swiftly proved herself the nastiest villain of Gail Simone's run. After usurping command of the nomadic intergalactic army known as The Citizenry, Astarte transformed what had been a largely pacific collective into a rampaging horde that destroyed and cannibalized the populaces of entire planets; kidnapped, genetically modified, and raped men for reproductive purposes; and indoctrinated stolen girls into becoming loyal slave-soldiers for Astarte's wars. Having put her daughter, Theana, through Training from Hell—forcing her to murder one hundred other children or starve—Astarte kept her caged like an animal, only turning her loose when Wonder Woman threatened her invasion of Earth. When Diana started getting through to Theana, Astarte ordered her daughter executed.
Now, Astarte is awful, to the point even Wonder Woman questions whether she's redeemable. The thing that gives me pause is her backstory, at least, the one the comic presents: basically, in childhood, the Citizenry came to claim her baby sister and Diana's mother, Hippolyta, to which Astarte volunteered to take her place. The EP does mention that this backstory doesn't line up with the known Amazon lore; I'm not sure if that was just a mistake on the writer's part, but it's shown while Astarte is under the influence of the Lasso of Truth, so at the very least, Astarte believes this to be her true backstory.
That, in and of itself, isn't what gives me pause. What does is that when she's forced to recall the memory by Diana, Astarte literally bursts into tears, screaming at Diana for making her remember and about how her sister doesn't even know she exists and what she gave up for her. For context, this is the scene in question:
[1]
◊
[2]
◊
Now, she does snap out of it rather quickly, and as the EP notes, she's willing to destroy Earth, which will kill Hippolyta, indicating any love she had for her sister is gone. So, her reaction could just be her engaging in self-pity, but I'd just like some further thoughts on this and whether there's more to it than that, since the EP did gloss over this specific part.
Why so serious?
Professor Gigachad
Sadly reading those points and checking the pages I am gonna have to go with a cut. To me this sounds like a case of a backstory at least affecting her enough and the fact she is crying when it is brought up shows pretty clearly she hasn't gotten over it. She is awful but that seems really hard to overlook.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Going back a page to the LN discussion.
Keera appeared in the LNs first and I'd say he's close enough in both versions. The main difference is his anime version is more subtle about it being a Bitch in Sheep's Clothing rather than a Card-Carrying Villain from the start.
While I'm at it, for Is It Wrong To Try To Pick Up Girls In A Dungeon, all three of them were light novel first and the anime was pretty faithful.
Edited by Snowy66 on Jan 27th 2023 at 8:01:03 AM
![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
'd. Sorry about that. Wrong place to put this.
Edited by eruptor142 on Jan 27th 2023 at 11:57:00 AM
Cut for Astarte I think
Cut Astarte
Edited by G-Editor on Jan 27th 2023 at 1:17:09 PM
Cut Astarte. Being willing to destroy the Earth doesn't automatically mean she has no love for her sister.
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Astar
Not the Eye
Cut Astarte
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Astarte seems like a cut.
I'll move the last two Light Novel works to Lit unless anyone objects.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Bye
Cut Astarte
Keep Judah, Dawson, Infinite, Tales of Halloween quartet, Jacob, Scar, Karl and Balekin
Cut Loptr, Ratar-O, Facilier, Father, Bavmorda, Abbott, Yamine, Rekka and Astarte
Just call me Solemn.
Here's what we're up to for the Tales of Halloween quartet, including votes made after this post:
Cut/leave rules unchanged: Me, Emerald, Lighty, miraculous, Ordeaux, Ravok (begrudgingly), Wat,
Lore, Beast,
G-Editor (10)
Keep/change rules: STAR, Geode, Snoke, N,
43,
DemonDuck (6)
Abstain/neutral: Sky, ASghhrv6ub, Totem (3)
If I misinterpreted your opinion, I'll be sure to correct it.
Edited by ShootingStar7X on Jan 29th 2023 at 8:17:21 AM
Otherwise known as SolemnStormcloud.
Cut Astarte.
Cut Astarte.
Goku Black
Cut Astarte.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I'm gonna throw a "Cut" for the quartet myself. Cut Astarte.
Edited by Beast on Jan 28th 2023 at 9:05:34 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Light Novel stuff is all done 
Not the Eye
I guess cu Rekka as well, as stupid as that sounds.
The one person I will say for Even Evil Can Be Loved is something my friend said. One word Joffery.