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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#3726: Jan 27th 2023 at 9:40:06 AM

Does Maegor need The First of His Name bit? We don't do it for Joffrey who's also Joffrey I and no one gets "Lord of the Seven Kingdoms" or "King of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men" which are technically involved titles, it seems a bit cumbersome.

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#3727: Jan 27th 2023 at 9:47:28 AM

OK, now his entry starts with:

King Maegor I Targaryen, aka "Maegor the Cruel",

Edited by WatTambor on Jan 27th 2023 at 8:48:47 PM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#3728: Jan 27th 2023 at 10:28:15 AM

On the subject of Game of Thrones, with Euron and now Maegor being discovered I honestly wonder if Karl Tanner is still worth keeping. Euron's rape count outstrips Tanner, the cruelty is outstripped by multiple of the other keepers in the series, and Maegor has a much higher body count. He doesn't have Craster's factor of the women being his wife-daughters to him they are just random women he has raped (what the heck did I just write).

I would say Walder Frey as well but considering how it went last time I would rather not reopen that can of worms.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 27th 2023 at 10:45:28 AM

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#3729: Jan 27th 2023 at 10:33:18 AM

Karl does have much less than both Euron and Maegor (king with the dragons), I think he is Okay for now.

Honestly woudn’t be suprised if some of show keeper do end up cut as House of dragon and other spin-offs go on, but for now I think everybody is okay.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#3730: Jan 27th 2023 at 10:50:16 AM

Isn't Euron basically just a pirate?

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#3731: Jan 27th 2023 at 11:02:43 AM

Isn't Karl just some dude with knives?

Bow to the Prototype
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#3732: Jan 27th 2023 at 11:13:18 AM

Karl was stuck most of the time being in The Night's Watch, where he was not able to do much of anything. Then, when he decided to become an active villain, he was stuck at Craster's home, with no chance to travel outside and commit more crimes. He was as evil as he can be, while stuck in a single location, where he had many Night's Watch members slaughtered, resumed the abuse of Craster's daughter/wives, gleefully decided to kill an infant and tried to torture and rape Bran's group.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#3733: Jan 27th 2023 at 11:27:29 AM

Euron is a literal prince of the Iron Islands and later their king. Karl is a fuck off deserter who turns a fort into a rape camp, plans to rape a child and sacrifice babies

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#3734: Jan 27th 2023 at 11:32:05 AM

Euron has a massive crew of the Ironborn while pillaging on the seas and later the full armada of the Iron Islands when he returns. Karl is nowhere near the same level.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#3735: Jan 27th 2023 at 11:33:55 AM

Ah I see, nevermind that argument. The issue I am seeing though is nothing he does is really super unique. The mass rape thing is done by Craster, killing an infant is done by Ramsay, and his body count isn't really anything special in the series. It does get to the point in this series where niches are very important.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 27th 2023 at 11:34:54 AM

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#3736: Jan 27th 2023 at 11:35:33 AM

The dude turns his former commander’s skull into a cup that he drinks out of, I’m gonna be very hard pressed to say he’s not unique

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#3737: Jan 27th 2023 at 11:42:12 AM

Karl: "Fuck 'em till they're dead, boys!"

He's absolutely just fine here for a guy with like 3 episodes of screentime

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#3738: Jan 27th 2023 at 11:44:26 AM

Actually if Karl only shows up in three episodes, maybe we should specify that on his writeup. Like we usually do for villains of this type.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#3739: Jan 27th 2023 at 11:46:25 AM

He appeared in two episodes of Season 3 and two episodes of Season 4.

Names of the Episodes:

"Walk of Punishment"

"And Now His Watch Is Ended"

"Oathkeeper"

"First of His Name"

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Jan 27th 2023 at 10:48:41 PM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#3740: Jan 27th 2023 at 11:48:18 AM

That might be a challenge to make work in the writeup.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 27th 2023 at 11:48:29 AM

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#3741: Jan 27th 2023 at 12:04:23 PM

[up] I don't think we need to specify the episodes he appears in. If he only appeared in one episode, then I would have agreed, but all of the GOT keepers appear in multiple episodes (except Aerys and Maegor who only qualify because of Histories & Lore).

Edited by WatTambor on Jan 27th 2023 at 11:08:45 PM

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#3742: Jan 27th 2023 at 12:08:26 PM

We can maybe specify that he appeared in Season 3 and 4.

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#3743: Jan 27th 2023 at 12:10:03 PM

[up] If we do that, we should also specify that Craster appears in seasons 2 and 3.

[down] Yeah, I agree. I don't think it's necessary. If they appeared only in one season, then maybe, but they appear in two.

Edited by WatTambor on Jan 27th 2023 at 11:12:31 PM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#3744: Jan 27th 2023 at 12:10:42 PM

Do we need to? Like I don't want to be rude but I genuinely don't see what this adds or helps with

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#3745: Jan 27th 2023 at 12:13:25 PM

It's just, sometimes the entries specify Seasons (unless the villain appeared in multiple seasons), where the keeper appeared in, sometimes not (which is a bit inconsistent). So maybe i thought, we can add that, to make it clearer in the page, where this specific villain appared in (since he appeared only in two seasons, if he appeared in more, i would not have even mentioned that).

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Jan 27th 2023 at 11:17:40 PM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#3746: Jan 27th 2023 at 1:59:43 PM

Also cut Yamime from the boring version of Ghost Stories I'll EP the dub version of Amanojaku shortly.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#3747: Jan 27th 2023 at 2:51:13 PM

Ok hey first book of the The folk of the air sequel came out. It's set 8 years later. Now the bad guys are pretty nasty. But uh I'm holding off for now.

Lady Nore and Jarel are abusive parents to their child who planned to betary Madoc and seize the throne (there also pointless characters that come the hell out of nowhere at the end of the original trilogy). Anyway in this book they plan to get the heart of elfhame which can be used to destroy it..

Like tbf they are nasty with the whole use an object to try and destroy Elfhame and how terrible they are to their daughter but Tbh I think Balekin can still stay fine. (Alderking and Mabry are fine. Probably the worst mid tier and low tier guys respectively in the series). Guy is still a disgustingly vile creep by the series standard:

  • Forcing his brother to torture a woman for fun to turn him evil.
  • Slaughteiny his family. Including stabbing his own father to death in cold blood.

  • Having the undersea Rape, Pillage, and Burn Elfhame.

  • And tbh his last big thing is easily worst things I've seen in a fantasy novel ever. Kidnapping a woman and having her tortured for weeks only to use her kidnapping to force her lover (your own brother) from having his people not fight back as you send troops to slaughter them out of a grudge. Like yeesh.

What do you think?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#3748: Jan 27th 2023 at 2:57:49 PM

Seems like he can still keep.

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#3750: Jan 27th 2023 at 3:14:06 PM

So Fire Force is apparently a prequel to Soul Eater. Are Medusa and Shaula still bad enough?

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.

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