Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Just how high is Bayonetta's standard now? I only know a bit but seems like it's now one of those cases where it's insane at this point.
Off topic but what I've heard about Singularity reminds me of a lot about the Darkest Knight.
The for Bayonetta at this point is probably "annihilates multiple cities" at the least and you'd need to do that much to even be considered as a flunky-level.
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Loptr since the standards leveled up.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, I confirm cutting Loptr.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Okay, so sincere we're being moved here:
I don't think Ratar-O qualifies. I'm willing to move it to the other thread, but "resources" isn't a convincing argument when Ratar-O's body count relies on a very vague, numberless pattern and everything else is generic villainy. This in a series with, again, the cannibalistic serial killer duo, can we emphasize that a little bit?
Fine with cutting him.
The Ultimate Lifeform
Quick question about one of my own approved C Ms from City of Heroes, Diabolique. This isn't actually relating to cutting anything as much as cleaning up her entry. Because of her nature as the Praetorian version of the Primal Tammy Arcanus I was thinking I should add that and clean up some of the grammar, specifically where it refers to Diabolique as such before it states she actually took the name. Mind if I make the changes? And can I PM the moderator who added the entry to Video Games: A to F?
Oh and cut Lopy.
Edited by ForgoLight on Jan 23rd 2023 at 12:43:01 PM
"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
The wifi here sucks
Yeah from what I'm reading he doesn't quite hit compared to the other villains in the show, cut him.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Okay, I gotta know, why doesn't this duo count?
I'll abstain.
You're good with Grune, right?
Forgo: Check your PMs.
Edited by ACW on Jan 23rd 2023 at 3:46:44 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
RIP Toriyama
Snip snip Loptr and Ratar-o with the added info from Scrgas.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Professor Gigachad
Geode said that the serial killing duo don't have an exact bodycount either, so I am not sure how they would outclass this guy when they also have a vague pattern.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Barb / Temporary Kylo
I'll abstain on Ratar on that note. But cut Roptr I think.
The First man
Not the Eye
For serial killer duo, once they become generals they don’t acctualy do much istjerivanje position. Like I really wish they counted.
And I stay by my argument, conditions Ratar-O puts slaves in are nasty and it is clear that death in search of the sword is the regular thing. And we have no reason to believe he would be any more benevolent when he gets sword of plundar and goes into conquest.
Kaynar and Addicus, for as bad as they are, they really only try to destroy one city, and as Mumm-ra's generals, they have way more to them.
Here're the issues: Ratar-O is, again, kinda generic as a tyrant. Compare to Grune and Slithe who make genocide, mass slavery, and mass murder kinda their thing. Slithe I would be very uncomfortable putting up because word of god has delivered plans for the rest of the series and it would be revealed he hates the cat-species because one of them murdered his family.
Grune is a keeper, barely next to Mumm-Ra, IMO, and I really think that Ratar-O runs into the heinousness wall. The issue is he's kinda second best in every crime. Everything he does, someone does and tries to do worse.
A would-be mass tyrant just sending a couple of folks to their deaths a year isn't much by way of pure heinousness, either.
Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 23rd 2023 at 12:51:50 PM
Addicus has a "pattern" body count of about eleven, IIRC, and Addicus literally begins his role eating a bunch of bird people, but yeah, after that they kinda stop doing exemplary stuff.
Not the Eye
Ratar-O does have a Mass slavery and it is make clear that at that point he really isn’t able to go on genocide and like. I ultimately feel that he just barely counts.
Yep, Addicus's first intro is him eating a bunch of birds alive and Kaynar clearly about to murder the guards in his prison while cackling hysterically but after that....
Big overture, little show
Being unable to cross the heinous standard doesn't really give you extra points. He's not the only villain with mass slavery there, Grune and Mumm-ra are way worse. And it's pretty generic evil slavery, too
Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 23rd 2023 at 12:57:04 PM
null per ![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Jan 23rd 2023 at 4:00:03 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
That actually raises an interesting point: Are we allowed to go by Word of God if the series was cancelled?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
I don’t know where idea that he send two people a year comes from. After two slaves at begging of the episode die he immediately pitches tow new one and on the same night another duo (which end up being Tygra and Cheetara).
By the timeline he didn’t even had cats as slaves for a year
Edited by EmperorGeode on Jan 23rd 2023 at 1:02:19 AM
The creator gave a shockingly in-depth review of exactly what would've occurred. It's a unique case of where I am not comfortable listing Slithe, and he's not bad enough next to Grune anyways.
Sending people to die two by two in this case is really not that bad, either. Not next to two open serial killers
I've also got an unfortunate cut I want to proffer from Disney Chills (the resident Goosebumps equivalent for Disney ATM).
- Fiends on the Other Side: Dr. Facilier was once a benevolent man who used his powers for good until he craved more power. After betraying his order and disfiguring Deseroux's face with dark magic, Facilier tries to manipulate her grandson Jamal into giving him her necklace, later sending shadow monsters and enchanted alligators to tear him apart when he refused. Cursing Jamal's twin brother Malik into the shadows, Facilier causes more damage to befall New Orleans by amplifying the hurricane, all to force Jamal to relent. Despite Jamal giving him the necklace, Facilier transforms him into a shadow and gleefully condemns them to painfully fade from existence while he took over.
I supported this version of Facilier back when the book was first released, back when the series was relatively new and the "Fate Worse than Death for the child protagonist" ending wasn't common to pretty much every book in the series. It's the one thing that supplements a generic rapsheet.
But we've moved on. The series has now introduced:
- Hades, who condemns the Kid Hero to a Fate Worse than Death and prepares to annihilate the entire world
- Cruella de Vil, who condemns the Kid Hero to a Fate Worse than Death and has done so with enough victims that she literally keeps their wanted posters up as trophies
- Maleficent, who condemns the Kid Hero to a Fate Worse than Death and drives an entire town into death-like slumber
- Ursula, who isn't necessarily as bad as the others but still condemns the Kid Hero to a Fate Worse than Death
The one and only standout crime of Facilier's is now lost in a sea of imitation; in true Goosebumps style, these books almost inevitably end on a Downer Ending with the hero subjected to some sort of gruesome And I Must Scream fate while the villain skips off consequence-free. Facilier's other crimes otherwise are
- amplifying a hurricane (generic—no casualties or anything, IIRC)
- scarring Deseroux's face (pretty nasty, but still generic)
I really don't see the argument for keeping him anymore, TBH. He's not pushing the envelope compared to our two current qualifiers and he is, at best, barely worse than the Disney villains who don't keep.
What do we say?
Professor Gigachad
The fact he is sending two people to die after the other is beyond generic slavery to me.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I would say Keep since none of the stories are canon to eachother.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 23rd 2023 at 1:01:56 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
I need to see a source on that for that argument to fly. Like, need. Nothing I've seen otherwise indicates the stories are explicitly all stand-alone.
As far as everything I've seen goes, all of these books are in the same universe.
Edited by Scraggle on Jan 23rd 2023 at 2:04:47 AM
I know we are no longer allowed to use terms like “Criminal Minds Syndrome”, but this is definitely a case of “would count in most works that don’t have such a jacked standard of badness”, although in this case the resources are the main problem here.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.