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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#3276: Jan 21st 2023 at 6:56:22 AM

Honestly when I find stuff like this. I normally just leave it alone. Not really our problem.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#3277: Jan 21st 2023 at 6:58:32 AM

That's another thing that was discussed on Restart (I know not everyone was there) - don't cut tropes that conflict with a CM entry. If someone wants to add misuse that's their prerogative, but we don't get to police character pages like that - take it to the Is This An Example thread if you have to, but otherwise just don't do it.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#3278: Jan 21st 2023 at 7:09:26 AM

What if it's, say, something under Even Evil Has Standards when it's instead clearly Pragmatic Villainy?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#3279: Jan 21st 2023 at 7:10:52 AM

Uh if your not familiar with the work personally. Just leave it or bring it to Is this an example?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#3280: Jan 21st 2023 at 7:16:12 AM

If you know the work well enough to tell if something's misuse then yeah, delete it or move it, but if it's just "this trope is incompatible with the CM entry", then don't do it.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#3281: Jan 21st 2023 at 7:17:48 AM

I meant what if we DO know the work?

EDIT: [up][nja][tup]

Edited by ACW on Jan 21st 2023 at 10:18:00 AM

Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#3282: Jan 21st 2023 at 7:35:04 AM

Got to agree with Mir and Star on this.

For Arrowverse order, I intend to get a few more opinions, especially 43's, before I go ahead with tweaking the sandboxes.

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#3283: Jan 21st 2023 at 7:56:55 AM

Mir and STAR have a point. Master Split looks good, but yes kinda unsure if Crispy makes it on his own.

Edited by EmperorGeode on Jan 21st 2023 at 7:59:18 AM

Elimations1 King Kandy Kane from Kandy Kingdom Since: Jan, 2023 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
King Kandy Kane
#3284: Jan 21st 2023 at 8:41:37 AM

I ended up finding and removing this unapproved CM entry on the Silver Age Sentinels YMMV. Any thoughts?

  • Mister Matthews is a sadistic sociopath who enjoys torturing and murdering superheroes. He has no qualms about using Human Resources en masse to further his goals in spite of his entire motivation being that superheroes failed to protect his normal-human mother. He once planned to transform the entire human race into Half-Human Hybrids; now he's "only" going to do that to about one billion people once the White Rooks conquer the world. He is the least popular person in the White Rooks, a team with a literal Nazi supervillain and a sadistic serial killer. He creates entire batches of vat-grown beastman slaves, plots mass murder on a daily basis, and once tortured one of Sentinel's only surviving Golden Age friends, for two weeks, just to taunt the Guard with it. Kreuzritter's charm is enough to get others to follow him, but even in his own corporation, no one likes Mister Matthews.

Edited by Elimations1 on Jan 21st 2023 at 11:42:06 AM

(police siren)
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#3285: Jan 21st 2023 at 8:49:10 AM

PM the troper though; that might be a keeper.

Elimations1 King Kandy Kane from Kandy Kingdom Since: Jan, 2023 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
King Kandy Kane
#3286: Jan 21st 2023 at 9:00:44 AM

Honestly, ACW, I'm not sure he keeps. The write-up states that Mister Matthew hates superheroes because they failed to protect his mother; likely indicated he cared about her. But, if you really want me to PM the troper, I'd be more than happy to.

(police siren)
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#3287: Jan 21st 2023 at 9:03:12 AM

My question about Crispy Master is, if we're considering him a different character, is he bad enough? Like almost wiping out the time masters is bad, it's just that Dr. Who has a really high heinousness standard.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#3288: Jan 21st 2023 at 9:03:30 AM

It's worth sending the troper a PM anyway - 9 times out of 10, someone who adds an unapproved writeup will know not to do that again if you PM them to come here. It makes things easier for the future.

Elimations1 King Kandy Kane from Kandy Kingdom Since: Jan, 2023 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
King Kandy Kane
#3289: Jan 21st 2023 at 9:04:13 AM

Alrighty then. I'll do that real quick.

(police siren)
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#3290: Jan 21st 2023 at 10:32:51 AM

I put in the suggested edits to Monster Legend Of The Galactic Heroes. If anyone's got issue or wants to reformat further happy to talk about it.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#3291: Jan 21st 2023 at 10:54:39 AM

So are we getting rid of Novel!Ares?

Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
#3292: Jan 21st 2023 at 11:29:06 AM

I don't think we should cut Novel!Ares as far as I am aware but IDK.

Edited by Echidna on Jan 21st 2023 at 2:29:27 PM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#3294: Jan 21st 2023 at 11:45:41 AM

Yeah we are getting rid of Book!Ares

Alright so here was the old write-up

  • "The Fallen Idol" & "Camera Obscura": Marlon Hopgood uses his prop store to lure women where he has them drugged and allows his clients to sexually violate them, while Hopgood would film these acts before selling those non-consensual porn films. One example has Hopgood arrange the 15-year old Jessica Hamilton to be raped by Mark Bishop, while Hopgood would collaborate with June Ballard in using his film to blackmail Bishop. Hopgood is later seen trying to sexually assault women himself before fleeing by car when the cops spot him, uncaring if he causes collateral damage and casualties along the way.

here's My re-write for Hopgood:

  • "The Fallen Idol" & "Camera Obscura": Marlon Hopgood is a prop store owner who arranged Mark Bishop to rape the 15 year old Jessica Hamilton, while Hopgood non-consensual films the rape and work with June Ballard to blackmail Bishop. Hopgood had also filmed previous clients violating other women before and later tries sexually assaulting women himself.

Anythoughts?

Edited by G-Editor on Jan 21st 2023 at 2:49:34 PM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#3295: Jan 21st 2023 at 11:48:17 AM

Okay please don't take this as offense. But could you please pass that rewrite through get help with English. I can notice grammar issues from just reading it.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#3296: Jan 21st 2023 at 11:54:07 AM

Lemme try:

  • "The Fallen Idol" & "Camera Obscura": Marlon Hopgood is a prop store owner who arranged for Mark Bishop to rape the 15-year-old Jessica Hamilton, while Hopgood films the rape and works with June Ballard to blackmail Bishop. Hopgood had previously filmed other clients violating women, and later tries sexually assaulting women himself.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#3297: Jan 21st 2023 at 12:12:06 PM

Um honestly if that is his entire rapsheet I seriously wonder if he actually counts.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#3298: Jan 21st 2023 at 12:16:09 PM

Did Hopgood blackmail bishop before or after the rape?

Edited by miraculous on Jan 21st 2023 at 12:16:26 PM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#3299: Jan 21st 2023 at 12:25:03 PM

While I still think Mason is way worse than Fontaine, I could also see an argument for cutting Hopgood. I played the game a while back, but I vaguely recall there being stacks of film rolls in his snuff set. If we could get an actual number of film rolls shown in-game, we could probably use that to approximate victims. If he's done it dozens of times, I could still see him keeping.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#3300: Jan 21st 2023 at 12:26:46 PM

Why are we cutting Novel Ares? We nixed the requirement of an adaptation needing to be different and such.

Bow to the Prototype

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