TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Complete Monster Cleanup

Go To

Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#3251: Jan 20th 2023 at 1:43:35 PM

Any thoughts on this as a Blue quote?

Twenty-three hundred years ago, you told me to think. You told me to run. You told me I was wrong. But I wasn't. First I'll eat New York, and then I'll finish what we started at the dawn of man. One way or another, I'm sure we'll talk soon.
Blue, Cognetic

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
ASghhrv6ub Best Smile from Second star to the right. Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Best Smile
#3252: Jan 20th 2023 at 2:06:09 PM

Cut Grumpf, Khaled & Niragi.

Not feeling Blue's quote honestly.

Edited by ASghhrv6ub on Jan 20th 2023 at 5:06:32 AM

I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#3253: Jan 20th 2023 at 2:34:06 PM

Is anyone familiar with Dragon Quest V. As Ladja's original entry seems a bit uh odd in places. Did he really actually wait 18 years to kill the heroes mother as that sounds strange....

  • Complete Monster: Bishop Ladja becomes utterly vile in the remakes. In his first scene, he brutally beats the hero and Harry—who are six years old at the time—to within an inch of their lives, laughing sadistically all the while. Then, when the hero's father, Pankraz, arrives to save the day, he threatens to murder the hero if Pankraz tries to fight back against his enforcers. After the enforcers are done beating him, Ladja coldly finishes off the dying Pankraz with a giant fireball, then carts the hero and Harry off to a brutal slave labor camp for over ten years. He kills off one person ahead of him, King Korol, for the power. Finally, he makes sure to wait until the main character reunites with his mother after over 18 years apart to kill said mother, just for maximum emotional impact.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#3254: Jan 20th 2023 at 2:40:38 PM

It notes the remakes? But not the original? I intend on having a look into the game to see if the Big Bad is viable so I could see for Ladja?

Unless anyone here with current knowledge say fix it.

Edited by WetFlannels on Jan 20th 2023 at 10:41:00 AM

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#3255: Jan 20th 2023 at 2:41:38 PM

Yeah uh from what I've heard this stuff [up][up] above only happens in the remakes. He's probably a bit too generic without this personal villany.

Edited by miraculous on Jan 20th 2023 at 2:42:04 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#3256: Jan 20th 2023 at 2:43:13 PM

Reading the writeup, I could attempt a rewrite from what I can gather?

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#3257: Jan 20th 2023 at 2:46:26 PM

Grandmaster Nimzo needed Madalena to open a portal so he kidnapped her. Ladja deliberately waits to blast Mada right after she and the main character reunite, then mocks both of them about it. (In the original game this killed her, but in the remake it almost kills her; then Nimzo finishes the job.)

From his character sheet: "In the SNES original, he was still a presence but ultimately a lackey, didn't have a unique appearance, and gets chumped about two-thirds of the way through the game. In the PS 2 remake onwards, he's been upgraded to the full-blown right hand of Nimzo himself, and is a complete monster throughout the entire game, largely due to his popularity as a villain in the original and fans asking for him to have a larger role."

The Protomen enhanced my life.
eruptor142 Since: Mar, 2021
#3258: Jan 20th 2023 at 3:37:22 PM

I think we might need to move one of the completed entries. Specifically, Kokabiel for A Demon Among Devils. Currently, he's placed under the general Monster from Fan Works page solely under the banner of Persona 3, but since the fanfic is a crossover between Persona 3 and High School D×D, shouldn't it be in the crossover section?

Edited by eruptor142 on Jan 20th 2023 at 6:37:51 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#3259: Jan 20th 2023 at 4:09:34 PM

Oh, yes, cut Niragi. I don't mind the season finale thing, but being grateful for the Heroic Sacrifice gives me pause.

And yes, that fan work probably should be moved.

Unless someone gets to it, I'll take care of that tomorrow.

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#3260: Jan 20th 2023 at 11:47:30 PM

I've not seen the film and nor do I really want to but on Lockdown's character page. There's some damning sounding tropes.

  • Consummate Professional: Unlike previous villains, he's not interested in subjugating or slaughtering humanity just because he's stronger than they are. He even honors his bargain with Attinger and gives him the Seed once he has Optimus, when he could have easily double-crossed and killed him and his men.
  • Even Evil Has Standards: It's heavily hinted that Lockdown sees Attinger's attempts to get rich for exactly what they are. This before the movie itself even hinted as such, to boot.
  • Evil Virtues: Honor and Resourcefulness. Honors his end of the deal with Attinger despite holding him in contempt and being in a perfect position to screw him hard, and treats Optimus as something of a Worthy Opponent throughout. Not much elaboration is needed on his resourcefulness.
  • Punch-Clock Villain: Don't get us wrong; Lockdown is as brutal as any antagonist we've seen before; but once he claims his target, he's simply going to leave Earth to collect his payment from his client. He's not interested in the war at all.

Can anyone elaborate?

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#3261: Jan 21st 2023 at 1:52:36 AM

I don't really recall any 'standards' or anything of the sort toward Attinger. He just looks down on him for being human.

I don't really think any of that other stuff is mitigating. He was hired to take Optimus to the creators and so he plans to to take Optimus to them. And he obviously wouldn't want to get involved in the war sense he dislikes either side. And he has nothing really to gain from backstabbing Cemetery Wind sense he's about to leave the planet.

Bow to the Prototype
RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3262: Jan 21st 2023 at 1:54:55 AM

Sorry if this isn't the right place to talk about this, but this is the only thread I thought appropriate to mention

Super Buu has an entry in Dragon Ball, but his character profile under Dragon Ball: Majin Buu has an Even Evil Has Loved Ones entry

  • Super Buu still loves Hercule and Bee as friends. He spares the two after his creation in favor of seeking other fighters to go up against. Then, while using an attack designed to wipe out everyone on Earth in two minutes, multiple shots stray towards the two, but always stray off course at the last second as if he physically couldn't bring himself to hurt them.

Doesn't that contradict his Complete Monster status. It doesn't state there is a mitigating factor to it not really counting as him caring about someone else and it doesn't say anything about him subverting this trait

The other one I have an issue with is the first Master entry under Whoniverse. It's not the fact some Masters like Missy are not [=CM=s] but past/future ones are (I've come to terms regeneration alters the personality enough that they're different enough people, like how Kamoshida is still a CM even with his heart change because he isn't the same person anymore).

No, it's that the first entry treats Roger Delgado's incarnation and the decayed version as the same incarnation/person. However this contradicts Doctor Who – Masters which states that it is an Ambiguous Situation that the Delgado and decayed versions are the same incarnation. What was the deciding factor that they are the same incarnation when the CM proposal of this character/s was originally proposed? And if they were decided as different, shouldn't they count separately?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#3263: Jan 21st 2023 at 2:07:23 AM

That was Good Buu influencing him from within. The same thing happens with Kid Buu later when he's pursuing him and he can only actually hurt him when he spits him out. Plus that part is kinda subverted by trying to rip apart the universe with them on it later.

Honestly, I don't mind splitting that first master entry. I think MGD said the EU confirmed their the same person. But the EU of doctor who is dysfunctional to say the least and it is unclear in the actual show. Think big finish goes back and forth.

Edited by miraculous on Jan 21st 2023 at 2:09:47 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#3264: Jan 21st 2023 at 2:13:50 AM

I coul see splitting entry of first Master. But as stated show itself is rather ambiguous on it, with EU flip-floping kinda makes me hesitant toward idea.

Heck apperently its Flip floped whether corpse like master and slighthy less corpse like master are same or 2 different incarnations.

Edited by EmperorGeode on Jan 21st 2023 at 2:15:10 AM

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#3265: Jan 21st 2023 at 3:05:34 AM

Eh @Snoke I've never seen the film so I can't comment on how her operates and search function isn't being my friend to find his EP, just his animated one.

I don't oppose the split between Delgado and Crispy but do they do enough each individually to warrant an entry?

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#3266: Jan 21st 2023 at 3:08:43 AM

The split would be like this if it happens?

  • The "UNIT Years" Master is the first incarnation to appear in the series and still remains one of the worst. The Master is a petty megalomaniac who hides under a veneer of suave charm and culture. Murdering a scientist in his first appearance, the Master leaves his shrunken corpse to signify his arrival. Masterminding the Nestene invasion, the Master causes numerous casualties and hypnotizes Jo into blowing herself up, along with the Doctor and everyone within the UNIT Headquarters. When this fails, the Master engineers his other nefarious plans: using a mind parasite to kill people through experiencing their worst fears; trying to start World War III with a nuclear missile; assisting the Sea Devils in reconquering the Earth by wiping out mankind, just to spite the Doctor and his love of humanity; using Kronos to destroy the entire civilization of Atlantis; and framing the Earth and Draconian Empire's for attacks on one-another, hoping to engineer a bloody war between the two, leaving them too weak to fight off an upcoming Dalek invasion.
  • On the brink of death, the Master manipulates the ambitious Goth into assassinating the Lord High President, framing the Doctor, while he enacts a plan to ensure his survival, almost wiping out the Time Lords in the process. When this also fails, the Master plots his revenge for decades before trying to take the Doctor's body and remaining regenerations. Cruel until the end, this incarnation's final act is to hijack the body of the kind-hearted Tremas, killing him in the process.

Delgado seems perfectly fine there but I'm not too sure on Crispy personally, if we go through with it.

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#3267: Jan 21st 2023 at 4:38:23 AM

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=16738556630A78599000&page=50#comment-1242

So with what Beast said here, should that LA Noire get a rewrite or trim?(assuming he's still bad enough)

Bow to the Prototype
Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#3268: Jan 21st 2023 at 4:52:41 AM

Cut Asad and Niragi.

I've thought about the way the entries for Arrow are ordered as shown here:

The Count->Dollmaker->Khem-Adam->Zytle->Shrieve->Anarky

Now the Count, Dollmaker and Zytle are villains of the week, Shrieve and Anarky are recurring, season-specific threats while Khem-Adam is also a major villain, but he's from a comic book tie-in instead of the show itself. So how do we want to sort this out? My suggested order is:

Khem-Adam->Shrieve->Anarky->The Count->Dollmaker->Zytle

I'm basing this new order on how Magnificent Bastards are listed at Arrowverse, which is that for each show, recurring characters go first, followed by one-shots. Any comments or thoughts on this?

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#3270: Jan 21st 2023 at 6:20:31 AM

You can cut those tropes from Lockdown's page since we already discussed Lockdown and we voted to approved him.

Also regarding what Beast said about Marlon Hopgood the entry never said that he killed anyone in the car chase but that he would not care if he'd done so and what made him stand out was his unique pattern of drugging women and having his clients have their way with them while he films these acts. While the case focuses on Jessica Hamilton's rape that Marlon arranged there are other films scene behind his hidden photoshoot and Marlon admits that his clients like to come to his place and have their way with women while he films these acts keeping his client's faces hidden so to make them anonymous (he says that Mark went apeshit when Marlon revealed his face in the film as for his and June's plan to blackmail Mark)

I can re-write Marlon's write-up later to if it pleases everyone

@ACW: yeah we can cut Novel!Ares since his game counterpart is being approved

Edited by G-Editor on Jan 21st 2023 at 9:43:21 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#3271: Jan 21st 2023 at 6:40:36 AM

Don't know what we wanna do about the Arrowverse order.

Master...eh, whatever.

I think cutting Novel!Ares makes sense myself.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#3272: Jan 21st 2023 at 6:46:53 AM

@G: I don't recommend cutting those without an edit reason or citing this thread. (Edit: Dont cite this thread. I meant in the sense of using this thread as a citation to cut it)

Acw got partially suspended for doing that.

Edited by miraculous on Jan 21st 2023 at 6:54:59 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#3273: Jan 21st 2023 at 6:49:29 AM

[up]I haven’t done anything right now which is why I was asking people here if it is okay to do a re-write on Marlon, since Beast made some points regarding him

[down] Oh well I guess we can discuss if we need to. I think Snoke EP’d Lockdown and brought up their points why they thought Lockdown could count as they can make counter arguments regarding those tropes

Edited by G-Editor on Jan 21st 2023 at 9:55:18 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#3274: Jan 21st 2023 at 6:50:11 AM

I meant cutting the tropes on Lockdown's character page.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#3275: Jan 21st 2023 at 6:55:05 AM

Also, just because the tropes aren't disqualifying doesn't mean they aren't legit. They're not being misused - I'm gonna be honest, don't cut them. It'll be more trouble than it's worth.


Total posts: 18,821
Top