Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread
.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here
) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread
.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread
, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread
. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
There might be merit to having a broader (off-thread) discussion about what qualifies as part of the mythos, but that's another topic for another time.
Anyway I'mma go back to lurking and I'll pop in and out when there's things I feel like I can help discussing ~
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallCut Mad Dog
Also echoing Ordeaux question, is there a list that keeps track with candidates approved to get cut?
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffI have been keeping a list in my head, you can check the Former Complete Monsters page to see what I have handled already.
I believe I brought this up previously on the "Restarting the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard cleanup threads" page, but I don't properly recall the verdict reached and ACW suggested I bring the matter up here.
The Tsugumomo manga was found to be in violation of TV Tropes' content policies, so the page has been rebranded to focus exclusively on the anime. Prior to this, the character Dabada Dabaharl got a (well-deserved) Complete Monster writeup... but the issue at hand is that Dabada only appears in the manga. Given that the page is meant to focus exclusively on the anime, should Dabada's entry be cut or can it be retained?
(As I write this, I think I remember the verdict reached was to keep it with some minor adjustments to make it clear she's a manga-only character, but I can't find it.)
That thread ended up saying that any work (whose characters fulfill the usual requirements) can have a CM entry even the work itself can't have a page, didn't it? So the entry can stay on Monster.Anime And Manga, but I guess will need to be removed from the work's YMMV page since it's for anime-only YMMV tropes.
Cut mad dog.
I was thinking about updating Palpatine’s Franchise-wide entry to include operation Cinder ( His pothomous plan to have his most zealus followers destroy hundreds of worlds with Weather Control Machines in case of his death, does this look good?
- Sheev Palpatine is a Dark Lord of the Sith who is by far one of the franchise's most iconic and evil villains. Born as a nasty sociopath who loved to inflict pain and sought to extend his influence wherever he could, in his various guises as Darth Sidious and ruler of the Galactic Republic and later the Galactic Empire, he has been responsible for orchestrating galactic-level wars; manipulating others and then disposing of them when they have served his needs; personally murdering and torturing a vast number of people; tyrannically oppressing trillions of sapient beings; wiping out billions of lives to secure and then maintain power; and concocting a scheme to have hundreds of worlds destroyed before doing the same to the entire Empire and its countless soldiers should he perish. His crimes across the entire franchise are detailed in various canon works, where he is the Big Bad; numerous Legends works; and "Others".
Edited by EmperorGeode on Dec 11th 2022 at 7:41:28 AM
I myself asked about that once, but Lighty told me that there are significant differences in the way the two Crasters are portrayed in terms of mannerisms. I don't remember enough to say if it's true, but I trust Lighty since he is pretty familiar with the franchise.
Current tally on Lo Bu since Demon switched his vote from yes to no (tell me if I am missing someone's vote).
Yes(16): 43, jackie, Sky, Scraggle, Lighty, Ravok, G, MGD, papyru, Snoke, Wet, Bull, Interests, Joseph, Unknown, Emperor
No(16): Wat, Kazuya, Silverblade, Lore, Xie, Ordeaux, Agent, Septimus, N, Orbiting, Zuxtron, Irene, gadiel, Demon, Mir, EmeraldEmperor
Abstain(6): ACW, Yobaby, Critica, Powermaster, STARCRUSHER, jjjj
I see that Lo Bu is probably going to be the most debated candidate in the history of the trope, so I will just post the relevant parts from the book which describe the raids of the Jogos Nhai/zorse-riders against Yi Ti and other countries as well as the part about Lo Bu here, so everybody is familiar with the whole situation and how it's described in the text and then they can decide how they feel about it:
The face the zorse-riders show outsiders is very different, however, for they live in a state of perpetual war against all the neighboring peoples. Their attacks upon N'ghai, the ancient land to the northeast of their domains, has reduced that once-proud kingdom to a single city (Nefer) and its hinterlands.
Legend claims that it was the Jogos Nhai, led by the jhattar-the jhat of jhats and war leader of the whole people-Gharak Squint-Eye, who slew the last of the stone giants of Jhogwin at the Battle in the Howling Hills.
Before the Dry Times and the coming of the Great Sand Sea, the Jogos Nhai fought many a bloody border war against the Patrimony of Hyrkoon as well, poisoning rivers and wells, burning towns and cities, and carrying off thousands into slavery on the plains, whilst the Hyrkoon for their part were sacrificing tens of thousands of the zorse-riders to their dark and hungry gods. The enmity between the nomads and the warrior women of the Bones runs deep and bitter to this very day, and over the centuries a dozen jhattars have led armies up the Steel Road. Thus far all these assaults have broken against the walls of Kayakayanaya, yet the moonsingers still sing of the glorious day to come when the Jogos Nhai shall prevail and spill over the mountains to claim the fertile lands beyond.
Even the mighty Golden Empire of Yi Ti is not exempt from the depredations of the Jogos Nhai, as many a Yi Tish lord and princeling has learned to his grief. Raids and incursions into the empire are a way of life amongst the nomads, the source of the gold and gems that drape the arms and necks of their moonsingers and jhats, and of the slaves that serve them and their herds. Over the past two thousand years, the zorse-riders of the northern plains have reduced to ruins a dozen Yi Tish cities, a hundred towns, and farms and fields beyond counting.
...
During the long reign of Lo Han, forty-second scarlet emperor, three such invasions of the plains ended as described, yet the end of his days found the Jogos Nhai bolder and more rapacious than they had been when first he donned the imperial regalia. Upon his death, therefore, his young and valiant son Lo Bu determined to end the threat posed by the nomads for all time.
Assembling a mighty host, said to be three hundred thousand strong, this bold young emperor crossed the frontiers with slaughter as his only purpose.
Tribute could not sway him, nor hostages, nor oaths of fealty and offerings of peace; his vast army swept across the plains like a scythe, destroying all, leaving a burning wasteland behind it.
When the Jogos Nhai resorted to their traditional tactics, melting away at his approach, Lo Bu divided his huge army into thirteen smaller hosts and sent them forth in all directions to hunt down the nomads wherever they might go. It is written that a million Jogos Nhai died at their hands.
At last the nomads, facing the extinction of their race, did what they had never done before. A thousand rival clans joined together and raised up a jhattar, a woman in man's mail named Zhea. Known as Zhea the Barren, Zhea Zorseface, and Zhea the Cruel, and famed even then for her cunning, she is remembered to this day in the Golden Empire of Yi Ti, where mothers whisper her name to frighten unruly children into obedience.
In courage, valor, and skill at arms, Lo Bu had no peer, but in cunning he proved to be no match for Zhea. The war between the young emperor and the wizened jhattar lasted less than two years.
Zhea isolated each of Lo Bu's thirteen armies, slew their scouts and foragers, starved them, denied them water, led them into wastelands and traps, and destroyed them each in turn.
Finally her swift riders descended upon Lo Bu's own host, in a night of carnage and slaughter so terrible that every stream for twenty leagues around was choked with blood.
Amongst the slain was Lo Bu himself, the forty-third and last of the scarlet emperors. When his severed head was presented to Zhea, she commanded that the flesh be stripped from the bone, so that his skull might be dipped in gold and made into her drinking cup. From that time to this, every jhattar of the Jogos Nhai has drunk fermented zorse milk from the gilded skull of the Boy Too Bold By Half, as Lo Bu is remembered.
Edited by WatTambor on Dec 11th 2022 at 12:02:28 PM
I uh dunno. I mean this is so short that uh...I dunno. I'll think about it.
Also would anyone mind this expansion? Current isn't too long but I thought a couple of new details might be worth add ing having read it. From Dust Devils
- Current: Chief vampire Adam Price is an ancient monster who was the scourge of Europe. Arriving in the American West as the head of an acting troupe, Price uses this as a way to find victims. Sweeping from town to town, Price massacres many who cross his path, regardless of age or gender. After converting the unfaithful wife of hero Cody Wilson, Price decides to punish Cody for his dogged pursuit by massacring most of an entire town during a performance and trying to burn Cody's new Love Interest alive. Adam then opts to track down Cody's father and stepmother to murder them slowly before he has Cody tortured to death.
- Rewrite: Chief vampire Adam Price is an ancient monster who was the scourge of Europe. Arriving in the American West as the head of an acting troupe, Price uses this as a way to find victims. Sweeping from town to town, Price massacres many who cross his path, regardless of age or gender. Price and his crew target the family of the child Willet Black, having Willet's sisters raped and killed, before cannibalising Willet's elderly grandfather. After converting the unfaithful wife of hero Cody Wilson, Price decides to punish Cody for his dogged pursuit by massacring most of an entire town during a performance and trying to burn Cody's new Love Interest alive. Adam then opts to track down Cody's father and stepmother to murder them slowly before he has Cody tortured to death. Price ends up intentionally leaving his men to die when his life ends up on the line before simply stating he'll restart his killing spree anew somewhere else.
Edited by miraculous on Dec 11th 2022 at 7:32:02 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Look good!
Also:
- General Oba Ade is the leader of the Oyo Empire who seeks to expand his empire. Raiding villages during his journey of conquest, Oba would have anyone who opposes him slaughtered, while selling the woman and children as slaves. When raiding the village of Nanisca, Oba takes her for himself and has her violated repeatedly. Conspiring with the slaver Santo, Oba tries to convince the Dahomey Kingdom to join the trade, later attempting to wipe them out when they refuse. Escaping with numerous slaves, Oba tries to have them sent away before killing them off when the heroes try to intervene.
So, I do not think Oba's qualifications are in doubt. He's a mass murderer, a slaver, a rapist, but he's not the leader of the Oyo and specifically states he answers to a King. He himself is just a general.
Think this just needs a little change to something like "is a high-ranking officer in the Oyo Empire."
This work?
- General Oba Ade is a high-ranking member of the Oyo Empire who seeks to expand said empire. Raiding villages during his journey of conquest, Oba would have anyone who opposes him slaughtered, while selling the woman and children as slaves. When raiding the village of Nanisca, Oba takes her for himself and has her violated repeatedly. Conspiring with the slaver Santo, Oba tries to convince the Dahomey Kingdom to join the trade, later attempting to wipe them out when they refuse. Escaping with numerous slaves, Oba tries to have them sent away before killing them off when the heroes try to intervene.

Right now it looks like we will just be moving the unofficial stuff to the Fan Works page. Like the two other films and JTK.