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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#2801: Jan 13th 2023 at 2:17:43 PM

I have always wondered about Moff Tiann Jerjerrod, honestly. I haven't read this novelization, but Endor is an uninhabited moon as far as he knows (he probably doesn't know about the clans of teddy bears that inhabit it or at least that's the impression I got from the films and the reaction of the Imperials towards them, though it might be different in the novelization). This means that, as far as he knows, he is only killing a garrison of Imperial soldiers and attacking Rebel troops and it doesn't help that he is following Palpatine's orders while doing it. It's not like Moff Tarkin who destroys an entire inhabited planet with billions of inhabitants and does it on his own without following orders.

Not saying cut, but considering the heinous standard and that he comes from Legends, I would say a discussion is warranted. Also, he is supposed to be a Moff in the Imperial army which means that he is not that low on resources either.

Edited by WatTambor on Jan 13th 2023 at 1:22:19 PM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#2802: Jan 13th 2023 at 2:20:36 PM

As we cut Waingro for being a junior version of the sequel's Big Bad in terms of every crime then I think there's something to be said for a guy who's just got one bad moment, which Wat's now bringing up may have not even been vile to a degree the character understood, when the Empire in general is such a horror show.

The EP tries to buff him out as not a "Grand" one like Tarkin but that's a good point as well, he's not exactly a foot soldier who grabbed a doomsday device.

Edited by 43110 on Jan 13th 2023 at 5:21:25 AM

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#2803: Jan 13th 2023 at 2:21:47 PM

Actually I should note that Novel isn’t actually part of Legends canon. You do make a good point thought. But yes with Tarkin and Novel Palpatine he definetely comes short.

Edited by EmperorGeode on Jan 13th 2023 at 2:22:48 AM

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#2804: Jan 13th 2023 at 2:25:49 PM

I think it depends on whether he knew about the existence of the Ewoks or not. If he didn't know, I think he should definitely be cut. If he knew, we can debate him, though he still might come a bit short in terms of crimes.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#2805: Jan 13th 2023 at 2:29:55 PM

If we do keep him, that entry needs a rework as well. Most of its sentences just say he's evil with no actual crimes until it finally gets to the one thing it claims he does.

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#2806: Jan 13th 2023 at 2:32:28 PM

[up] Yeah, I proposed a rewrite where I removed those sentences a long time ago because I thought his entry is too long for a guy who commits only one crime, but the people said his current entry is fine.

Edited by WatTambor on Jan 13th 2023 at 1:32:53 PM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#2807: Jan 13th 2023 at 2:32:33 PM

That is actually a good question. Was Jerjerrod even aware that Endor was inhabited? I know that it is a plot point in the film that the Empire thought that Endor was just a moon and were caught off-guard by the Ewoks. Would there be any reason to think that Jerjerrod doesn't think the same.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#2808: Jan 13th 2023 at 2:33:38 PM

I think he should be cut. Even if the novel is only canon with the OT, he's still competing with Tarkin and Palp (and OT Vader)

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#2809: Jan 13th 2023 at 2:35:31 PM

Anyone able to comment on the Asian Saga villain btw? Also for the record I'm a 'cut' for Jerjerrod.

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#2810: Jan 13th 2023 at 2:39:02 PM

I'm saying cut Jerrod, blowing up 1 sparsely inhabited planet that he might've not known was inhabited isn't enough for Star Wars, even if it's just a novelization.

Also for the Asian Saga guy I remember seeing that entry awhile ago and I had to check it was approved because it looks a lot like a bunch of unapproved entries, cut him if no one who knows anything about it gives a reason for him to stay and if he does give him a rewrite

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#2811: Jan 13th 2023 at 2:40:10 PM

Thinking about it more, I am saying cut for Jerjerrod as well.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#2812: Jan 13th 2023 at 2:50:49 PM

Cut Jerjerrod. he's just a petty man with a big gun who tries one standout crime.

I'll check Asian Saga again later.

MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#2814: Jan 13th 2023 at 2:52:46 PM

Cut Jerjorrd. Bad but not quite there.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#2815: Jan 13th 2023 at 2:53:56 PM

Someone please gimme a list of all the cuts (FWIW, I'm still unsure about Mick).

Edited by ACW on Jan 13th 2023 at 5:54:12 AM

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#2816: Jan 13th 2023 at 2:55:28 PM

Also I'm throwing a cut for Mick, Doug and Cameron as well

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#2817: Jan 13th 2023 at 2:57:57 PM

Though FWIW, if Jerjerrod IS aware Endor's inhabited, I'm fine keeping him.

CaptainPinkiePie from Equestria with love Since: Mar, 2019 Relationship Status: Brony
#2818: Jan 13th 2023 at 3:33:48 PM

Cut Mick and Moff Jerjerrod.

On the subject of cuts, I noticed this on Sabretooth's character page:

  • Even Bad Men Love Their Mamas: A few instances over the years show he loved his mother.
    • Memory Implants made him think his father killed his mother and he screams in agony when recalling it.
    • Wolverine calls him a motherless piece of- and Creed clobbers him before he can finish, saying that was for bringing his mother into it.
    • A flashback shows he put his elderly mother in the country's most expensive nursing home when she had cancer. He visited her with gifts and spent his time doting on her. We only have The Founder's word on all of this, though, and since Sabretooth himself has never mentioned any of it or been shown reacting to his mother's death, it is entirely possible that The Founder just made it all up to test The Old Woman (who hated Sabretooth) by seeing if she would go through with killing the woman who he had told her was Victoria Creed.

I'd rather not cut Sabretooth but, if his care for his mother is too consistent to brush off as Depending on the Writer, then he might have to go bye-bye. Unless this was brought up before.

Thoughts?

Captain Pinkie Pie! Nah, just Pinkie Pie.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#2819: Jan 13th 2023 at 3:36:51 PM

I know one case we brushed off as Depending on the Writer. Thrice is cause for concern though.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#2820: Jan 13th 2023 at 3:37:14 PM

Cut Mick and Jerjerrod. Now, speaking of Return of the Jedi, I want to discuss something that has been bothering me for a bit. From Monster.Fanscription:

Now he counts from memory but my issue is the bolded part. That comes from a completely different episode talking about the Last Jedi. One that references Luke training Rey something that can't happen if he dies in the Return of the Jedi. The only really thing connecting either is the fact Rob hosted the episode. Otherwise this doesn't really belong in his entry.

Edited by Bullman on Jan 13th 2023 at 5:39:37 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#2821: Jan 13th 2023 at 3:40:58 PM

Agree with removing, that part from fanscription Palpatine.

I will wait for somebody who knows Sabertooth better to comment.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#2822: Jan 13th 2023 at 3:47:31 PM

Cut that bit, but that Palpatine may be worth a look.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#2823: Jan 13th 2023 at 3:50:49 PM

I have watched the Last Jedi episode. From memory, he does nothing but so up and tell them about the protocol. We don't get dialogue or any thing describing his personality. Though it has been awhile and future handled that episode so maybe he would want to look into him.

Either way. Write up minus the bolded part is in the drafts.

Edited by Bullman on Jan 13th 2023 at 5:55:33 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]

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